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Article 21474 of alt.conspiracy: Xref: bilver alt.conspiracy:21474 talk.politics.misc:110407 Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc Path: bilver!tous!tarpit!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.uta.edu!utarlg.uta.edu!b645zaw From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) Subject: Koresh Doctrine -- 1 of 4 Message-ID: <23APR199307050091@utarlg.uta.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@news.uta.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: utarlg.uta.edu Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 13:05:00 GMT Lines: 508 Koresh Text from 3-02 (part 1 of 4) Analysts' Notes jst/sdt ======================================== | ================================== March 2nd, 1993. | | My name is Dave Koresh. I'm Speaking to | I. Introduction to the Revelation you from Mount Carmel center. The first | of Jesus Christ. thing that I would like to introduce, in | our subject, is the reasons for the reve-| lation of Jesus Christ. | | A. The Reasons for | In the Book of Revelation, commentary | 1. To Show What Must Come. states, that what John has written in | Scripture, is nothing other than the | revelation of Jesus Christ which God | gave to him, to show to his servants | things which must shortly come to pass. | And he sent and signified it, signified | it, by his angel unto his servant John. | | Now, John bear the Record of God, and | 2. To Bless the Reader. the Word of Christ, and of all things | that he saw. In the first chapter of | Revelation it says, "Blessed is the man, | Rev. 1:3 .. blessed is he that readeth, and they | that hear the words of this prophecy, | and those who "keep" the things that are | written therein, for the time is at | hand." | | The Scripture states John writes this to | 3. To Address the Churches. the seven churches which are in Asia: | Rev. 1:11 Ephesus, Smyrna, Thyatira, Sardis, Phil- | adelphia, Laodicea, so forth. Naturally, | also Pergamos we must understand that we're not in | Asia. These churches once existed long | ago, being beneficiaries of the power | and the gifts of the gospel. It was ori- | ginally introduced by, The Man himself. | Some knew him as Jesus Christ; others | knew him by the name -- Yeshua. | | What we're trying to present today may | 4. To Impart the Burden of in somewise shed a better light in re- | Heart, Mind, and Spirit. gards to my situation and my predicament | here at Mount Carmel. One point I'd like | a. Record of Christ's life. to bring out before we continue, is that | if we take a look at Matthew, Mark, Luke | The Gospel Writers. and John, we see the "burden of these | ancient writers:" the burden of heart, | the burden of mind and spirit, to put in | a scriptural record, their personal ex- | perience with Christ. A record that is | b. For anyone to read. to be received by men, all men, who will | receive it. | | The point is true that not all have seen | 5. Witnesses of the Rejection Christ, but it has been in the wisdom of | of the Son of God. God that certain men who were witnesses | of his life, and death, and resurrection,| that they would bear witness by the writ-| a. Witnesses for Christ ten word, and testify to the generations | ie Apostles & Disciples to come, of the terrible happening that | took place, when the men of that genera- | cf. Prophets, as witnesses tion would not believe in the man who | for God through so many obvious evidences proved | beyond shadows of doubt, that he was the | Son of God. | | B. The Revealer: Jesus Christ. | 1. Jesus Rejected. | But sad to say, if we take a look of the | a. Left Juda under threat of Record of John, the `Gospel Writer' of | death. John, say Chapter 7. We see in Scripture | John writes that after certain events, | John 7:1 after these things "Jesus walked in | Galilee:" he would not walk openly, "he | Koresh is quoting the Bible, would not walk in Jewry," he would not | from the Book of John. walk amongst the Jews, "because the Jews | sought to kill him." We might wonder | why? Wasn't Christ a such a good man?? | | "Now the Jews' Feast of Tabernacles was | b. His own brethren doubt him. at hand. His brethren therefore said un- | John 7:2 to him, Depart hence, and go into Judea, | John 7:3 that thy disciples also may see thy | works that thou doeth. For there is no | John 7:4 man that doeth any thing in secret, and | he himself seeketh to be known openly. | If thou do these things, show thyself to | the world. For neither did his brethren | John 7:5 believe in him." Strange statement isn't | it? It's funny how that, when men live, | and have to deal with realities of life, | that even a man like Christ, can have to | meet with unbelief, even from his own | brethren. | | "Then Jesus said unto them, My time is | c. Hated by the world. not yet come: but your time is alway | John 7:6 ready." And I'm sure most of all, bible | students will agree, the time referred | to, is the time of his crucifixion. They | wanted to kill him, and he didn't want | to show himself openly. | | Then Jesus said unto them... , (Verse 7) "The world can not hate | you; but me it hateth, because I testify | John 7:7 of it, that the works thereof are evil. | John 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up | yet unto this feast; for my time is not | yet full come." When he said these words | John 7:9 to them while he abode still in Galilee. | | "But when his brethren were gone up, | e. Went to feast in secret. then went he also up unto the feast, not | John 7:10 openly, but as it were in secret." You | would wonder why a man like Christ would | have something to hide? I mean surely, | the angels would protect him, obviously. | A person would think a lot of things | about this strange character, and dispo- | sition of character. | | But we're sure -- being Christians -- | f. Caused contention. that Christ knew what he was doing. And | Koresh is Christian?! "the Jews [sought] him at the feast, and | John 7:11 said, Where is he? And there was much | John 7:12 murmuring among the people concerning | him: [for] some said, He is a good man: | Rev. 7:1 others said, Nay; but he deceiveth * the | * people. Howbeit no man spake openly of | John 7:13 him for fear of the Jews." | | Now we understand *the Jews at that time | g. Backdrop: Corrupt leaders. had their own religious-political net- | work, didn't they? They were pretty | strong in the religious spectrum, * al- | * though they had no actual political | power. They were subject to the Roman | government, and not to their own judi- | cial/levitical laws. | | 2. Taught with Authority. | "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus | a. The people marvel. went up into the temple, and taught. | John 7:14 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How | John 7:15 knoweth this man letters, having never | learned?" * Now in the days of Israel, * | * most scholars * and teachers will agree, | * * that the schools of Israel, ordained | * by the Sanhedrin and also the Pharisees, | were schools similar to the uhh, ones | of our own theological schools of today. | | Of which the careful student of Scrip- | b. Insights to Scripture. ture observes, that nowhere is it writ- | ten in the gospel that Christ ever at- | tended these schools. But at the age of | 12, he did enter into the temple, and | Luke 2:41-47 had a most unique and interesting dis- | cussion with the religious leaders, of | which they were quite amazed at, such a | young lad's knowledge of Scripture. | | Now this man was teaching something -- | c. For it was God's teachings. (no doubt Christ that is) that inspired | the people to say, (you know), "How | John 7:15 cont. knoweth this man (you know) letters | having never learned?" They marveled. | "Jesus answered them and [said], My doc- | John 7:16 trine is not mine, but his that sent | me." Now, what does that mean? "My doc- | trine is not mine, but his that sent me. | If any man, will" (do the will) "do his | will, he shall know [of] the doctrine, | whether it be of God, or whether I speak | of myself." | | - - - : * Koresh Tells His Motives * | Now friends, people that love the Lord, | There's a short break this is where we begin to uhhh, talk | from the message about about some serious things. | Christ here. | I'm sure you're all aware of how... how | I'm involved in a very serious thing | right now, and I'm sure that a lot of | you realize that I should be possibly | scared, concerned. There's women, child- | ren, and men involved, in our situation | here at Mount Carmel. But I am really | concerned about the lives of my brethren | <- Concern for family. here, and also, would be concerned even | greater, about the lives of all those in | <- Concern for rest of world. this world. | | - - - : | 3. Jesus is Our Hope. | You know, without Christ, without Jesus, | a. God's law of righteousness. we have no hope. Why? Well, because we | know that the standard of God's righ- | Deu. 4,5,6 teousness is Law, a law of the Ten Com- | mandments, a law of statutes and judg- | ments. And which God gave unto Moses | on Sinai, saying this is thy righteous- | ness, O Israel. | | But you know, God also gave another law. | b. Sacrifice as a shadow of A law revolving around a system of shed- | grace. ding a poor and innocent lamb's blood. | So that all who would break the Law of | God, who would seek God for forgiveness | and pardon, had to bring a lamb, some- | thing innocent, and slay it -- although, | Israel themselves never really knew the | real meaning of this. Nonetheless, they | were commanded to do it. Also there were | Lev. 12:6 other sacrifices, such as: turtle-doves, | Num. 19:2 goats, oxen, red heifers. | Heb. 9:12-14 | But, it was a very sophisticated and | c. Social impacts. (An aside) very prolific type system of worship. Of | course, God had to give these people | their own country. He had to give them | blessings and things, to be able to per- | form these, rituals. And naturally of | course, having to slay a lamb for your | sins or such sacrifices, it would defini-| tely keep a man on guard, not to sin too | much, because otherwise he could lose | the livestock pretty quick, couldn't he? | | Well anyway, (thanks be unto God), from | d. The Law and The Prophets as far back as Deuteronomy 32, all the | highlight God's mercy. way through to Malachi, there has been | other writings, writings of the Proph- | God's writings are His ets. Writings who do not usurp the au- | Word thority of Moses, but actually exalt The | Law of Moses. But yet there's an addi- | God's rock hard law tional testimony. For the same God of | Heaven -- Who's rich in mercy -- has not | God's loving mercy only given to men a Law, but also a way | of escape, for those Repentant Souls who | might fall short of the glory of God's | law. Which some scholars will agree, | that the glory of God's law is that it's | a divine precept of His own character. | God's character is revealed in The Law. | | Now, Christ is the only hope for a world | e. Is Christ the Word of God? that sins. Now, how do we know? Well -- | The Prophets -- have prophesied? But | what if we're not familiar with the | prophets? Well, were the Jews familiar | with the prophets when this Word-of-God | was made flesh? When Mary, The Virgin, | had a baby boy, did everyone believe, | that she was really a virgin when Christ | was conceived? | | If we search the Scriptures, we'll find | f. The Prophet's told. in certain arguments the Pharisees con- | fronted Christ -- and said to him, "We | John 8:41 be not sons born of fornication." So | obviously, not everyone believed that he | was a child of a virgin birth! If they | Prophets were ignored hadn't looked back to Isaiah chapter 8, | and learned the mystery of Immanuel | Isa. 7:14 -- that a virgin would conceive and bear | a son -- then they might not really put | too much ahhm... [con]sistency into the | fact that Christ at that day claimed to | be born of a virgin. I mean, if Isaiah | the prophet was a false prophet, well | then naturally they would conclude that | anyone claiming to have these things | fulfilled would be false, too. | | But of course, Christ, he did something | g. Miracles confirm. more, than to just fulfill prophecy. He | did miracles. Miracles of mercy such as: | healing the sick, feeding the hungry, | raising the dead. And if we study we'll | see that "Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John" | gives us in somewhat, a full view of the | oppositions, and also, the confidements, | that he had in doing these miracles. He | gathered many unto him through the means | of these miracles. | | But sad to say, even though he had done | h. Those healed believed. so many miracles, Scripture says, yet | when it came right down to it, they did | not believe in him. It's amazing to | think that even his own disciples for- | sook him -- except Mary Magdalene. She | stayed with him to the very end, didn't | she? Last to leave The Cross, first to | come to the sepulchre. * Now, we need to | * sit here, and we need to ask ourselves | the question, `how come the men of that | generation did not believe in Christ?' | | In Matthew 23, Christ had to say to the | i. Christ confirmed by Prophets Jews "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem" how often | Mat. 23:37 I would have gathered you, but you would | not. Why? He tells them that they have | Not re-gathered, since forsaken The Prophets. "Thou that kill- | they've forsaken the est the prophets," how often I would | Prophets. Has Christ have gathered you. How does the subject | then told plainly how? of `gathering Israel' and `the prophets' | combine together? Then he tells them | that their houses, their temple, is left | Mat. 23:38 to them desolate. | | 4. Christ's Teachings on | Last Things. | And that in Matthew 24, as Christ said | a. What signs of his coming? on the Mount of Olives, his disciples | Mat. 24:1-2 came to him secretively to ask him, con- | Mat. 24:3 cerning these things. What should be the | sign of thy coming and of the end of the | world? Well, Christ begins to tell them, | Mat. 24:4 let no man deceive you, "For many shall | Mat. 24:5 come in my name, saying, I am Christ; | and shall deceive many." | | A lot of bible students think that verse | b. Some willingly deceived? refers to the people coming, and saying | that they themselves are Christ. Well, | naturally, if someone came claiming to | be Christ... Christ covers that subject | by saying that if any shall say, Lo he's | "in the desert;" believe him not "go not | Mat. 24:26 forth." If he is in the secret chambers; | "believe it not." | | But he goes on to say, that as lightning | c. Certain signs. shines in the east, even to the west, | Mat. 24:27 so also shall his coming be. And he goes | on to add, but "wheresoever the carcase | Mat. 24:28 is, there will the eagles be gathered | together." | The carcass of Babylon? | Now, unless we knew what was on the mind | d. Eagle's Nest?? of Christ, the day he sat with his dis- | ciples on the Mount of Olives, and gave | the instruction to them according to | Matthew 24; unless we could look into | his mind, we would only have to specu- | late, it would only be an opinion to try | to figure out what it means, "wheresoev- | Mat. 24:28 er the carcase is, the eagles..." What | carcass? Whose carcass? What eagles? | What are the eagles? | | Well, Christ tells you of many signs in | e. Abomination of Desolation. Matthew 24. He says, "when ye shall see | Mat. 24:15 the abomination of desolation, spoken of | by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy | Place, (of course, it says ye that read- | eth, let him understand), those who are | in Judea are supposed to flee to the | Mat. 24:16 mountains. | | | 5. Christ points to the Prophets | Now, what kind of points are these? What | a. Where to Get Insight. is in the mind of Christ? Is Christ | 1 Cor. 2:16 trying to tell us, that we need to go | back and study the prophet Daniel, to | see if maybe Daniel had some insight, in | regards to an abomination that maketh | Dan. 9:27 & 12:11 desolate? Now, an abomination is some- | A reference to any vileness thing nobody wants; especially, if it | set up in place of God; the makes us desolate. Now, what do these | result, wasted barrenness. things mean? | | Well, we learned earlier in the Book of | b. Not his, but God's Teachings John, Christ stated, "My doctrine is not | John 7:16 mine, but he who sent me." Now, we've | got "Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John" (and | The Apostles everybody in the Christian world his- | John 17:25 tory), to hear these men reveal Christ. | Mat. 27:55-56 The Christ they lived with. The Christ | Mark 15:37-40 they loved. The Christ that they didn't | Luke 24:10 understand sometimes. The Christ that | Mark 16:1,9 they had to see cruelly mocked, and | John 20:11-18 beaten, and ridiculed, and rejected, | and killed. | | But, thanks be unto God on the Cross[!], | c. Christ's Expression of Love. their Jesus, stated, "Father, forgive | Luke 23:34 them; for they know not what they do." | And he also said, (which is the point | that we're fixin' to get into quite hea- | vily), "Father, into thy hand I commit | Luke 23:46 Psa. 31:5 my spirit." | Koresh says "commit" for | "commend," same meaning. | Taking from Psalms 31, we begin to see | d. The words of God, Scripture. that Christ is quite well versed in the | Scriptures, just like the Gospels tell | Mat. 4:1-11 us, when he confronted the devil. Always | Luke 4:2-22 referring against the temptation by sta- | Mark 1:12,13 ting, "It is written, It is written, It | is written." | | 6. Is the Spirit Imparted | Through the Written Word? | Now what is this Spirit of Christ? Well, | a. Sharing Blood and Flesh. they pierced his side, and out his side | 1 John 5:6-8 John 19:34 came blood and water. Again another mys- | Mat. 26:26-29 tery. Which became something to do with | Heb. 9:18-23 eating his body, and drinking his blood, | 1 Cor. 10:16-17 some implements for The Church. | 1 Cor. 11:23-27 | But, what does these things really mean? | b. Bathed in Righteousness. Well, after we've read Acts and learned | of the Power on Pentecost -- the "cloven | Acts 2:3 tongues of fire" -- that came upon the | Apostles, who by mercy through Christ, | were given another chance to recover | from their folly; we learned through | Romans that there is a righteousness of | Rom. 3:21-28 God in Christ, "declare his righteous- | Rom. 3:25 ness." | Jer. 23:6 | We learn in Corinthians 1st and 2nd. We | c. Child of God. learn in Ephesians, Galatians, and Phil- | lipians... Ohh! We have such a wealth: | of information, of such intelligent men, | who speak sometimes, very deep mystical | Acts 17:27-31 things about a God -- who is in the form | of humanity -- who is the Son of God who | A God within human hearts sits at the right hand of God in the | and minds?? highest courts of the universe. Who pro- | mises that one day, He will come again. | | | 7. Christ & Disciples Persecuted | Well, the last living Apostle, through | a. Pointing to Paul? this great controversy... (and I might | 1 Cor. 9:1,2 & 15:9 add -- those who persecuted Christ, who | Acts 9:4 & 22:6-8 would not hear him no matter what sign | 1 Cor. 9:20-22 was given) ...also persecuted his disci- | Acts 9:1,13 ples. | Mat. 12:38 & 16:1 | Mark 8:11 | And finally, we end up in the Book of | b. John's controversy -- The Revelation, where John, (the last living | Testimony of Jesus Christ. disciple on the isle of Patmos), being a | prisoner for the Word of God and for the | testimony of Jesus Christ -- which no | Rev. 1:9 doubt is a thing Jesus has to say. Which | Jer. 23:16 would probably be quite controversial to | the things that the Pharisees and Sanhe- | drin of the day had to say, we're sure. | | He, (being on this isle of Patmos a pri- | c. John's Vision. soner, on the Lord's day), had a vision. | Rev. 1:10 And it states in this vision, (we should | all be familiar with it hopefully -- or | get familiar with it), he has a messen- | Rev. 1:11 ger, The Angel Lord come to him, who | identifies himself as the Spirit. And he | is told, to write to the seven churches | Rev. 1:19 of Asia. Of which, we can see clearly | Rev. 2 & 3 in the Scriptures, that they were given | specific and direct * messages from | * Christ. * And in each one of these mes- | * sages, Christ specifically told to the | churches what he would have them to do. | | Now, we know that Christ is the only man | d. Christ also rejected. in Scripture who ever kept The Law of | Heb. 4:15 God perfectly. We know that, because | we've heard the writings of the apostles.| But, sad to say, the religious leaders | of his days, and the majority of the | populace of his days, didn't think so. | It's funny how that is. It's kind of | Mat. 23:27-34 like people always like to build the | sepulchers of the dead prophets, and | garnish their tombs, but yet they hate | and kill living prophets. Only God knows | why that is. But nonetheless... | | To the church (of Ephesus, Smyrna, [Per- | e. Counsel to the Churches. gamos,] Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, | Laodicea -- the churches thus involved, | for anyone to read) direct counsel's gi- | ven. Beginning with, "UNTO the angel | Rev. 2:1 of the church of Ephesus write; These | things," (then... blah - blah), and what | Likely missed in editing. happens is this message is given. | | And then the decision is up to those who | f. Those who overcome. profess Christ. Each counsel ends with, | Rev. 2:7,11,17,29 "he that hath an ear..." -- to hear -- | Rev. 3:6,13,22 (only if you want to know) "let him hear | what the Spirit saith unto the churches."| == < end of part 1 of 4 > == Article 21475 of alt.conspiracy: Xref: bilver alt.conspiracy:21475 talk.politics.misc:110408 Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc Path: bilver!tous!tarpit!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.uta.edu!utarlg.uta.edu!b645zaw From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) Subject: Koresh Doctrine -- 2 of 4 Message-ID: <23APR199307071567@utarlg.uta.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@news.uta.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: utarlg.uta.edu Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 13:07:00 GMT Lines: 357 Koresh Text from 3-02 (part 2 of 4) | Analysts' Notes jst/sdt ======================================== | ================================== : II. Book of Seven Seals. | A. John's account. | Finally, we get to the fourth chapter of | 1. Throne Room. Revelation. And the student of Scripture | becomes interested in the subject, which | according to John says, "After..." these | things, (of course, he was referring to | Rev. 3:20 the last part of the 3rd chapter, of the | "I stand at the door message to Laodicea). | and knock..." | He says after these things, | 2. John Enters Heaven. "And, behold, a door was open in heaven: | Rev. 4:1 and the first voice which" spake to me | "as it were of a trumpet," talked with | Col. 4:3 me; which says, "come up hither, and I | will shew" you that "which must be here- | after." | | Now, the question to every true Chris- | 3. Do You Believe? tian is this: Is John telling it as a | truth, or is John lying to us? We know | he just gave counsels to the 7 churches | of Asia, (which were alive and hopefully | in good health, when he first gave these | letters to them). But nonetheless, they | being of Asia, are no wise the same peo- | ple of us today, or even of the oncoming | years thereafter. | | So, the events of Chapter 4, clearly ex- | 4. A Vision of the hereafter. plained by John, that his messenger as | sent to him stated that he'd be taken up | Rev. 4:1 * hither -- therefore a Door opened into | * Heaven (the Bible records), and he would | be shown things which must be hereafter, | * sometimes after John's day. | * | | B. Judgment Room. | Now what does he behold? In chapter 4 of | 1. John in the Spirit. Revelation, he says that he was in the | spirit, "immediately I was in the spirit:| Rev. 4:2 and, behold, a throne was set in heaven."| And h e states that the throne was occu- | pied, "one sat on the throne." | | And, He that sat upon the Throne, which | 2. Is God the throne? [was] "lined" with jasper and sardine | Heb. 1:8 stone. A careful student of Scripture, | The Rock -- symbol of Law knows, all the way through prophecy, all | the way through the Bible, as far back | as the days of Genesis, even to the pro- | Deu. 32:4,15,18 phecy of Deuteronomy 32, where it says, | 2 Sam. 22:32 Psa. 31:2,3 God is a rock -- `He is a Rock.' And his | Isa. 8:14, 17:10, 44:8 work is done in truth and righteousness | 1 Cor. 10:4 -- all the prophets refer to God as a | 1 Pet. 2:6 Rock. | | Now here we see in Revelation John like- | 3. In & Around the Throne. wise witnesses God has the appearance of | Rev. 4:3 a jasper and sardine stone. He claims | Eze. 1:26 that there was a rainbow round about the | throne in sight like an emerald. He care-| fully saw that there were living crea- | Rev. 4:6-9 tures around the throne saying that God | is "holy, holy, holy ... which was, and | Rev. 4:8 is, and is to come." A God, who created | all things, for His pleasure they were | Rev. 4:11 and are created." | | Now, this instruction emphasizes, that | 4. 24 Elders. there is a God, a kingdom, a judiciary, | (in the respect that John witnesses that | Rev. 4:4 there are 24 elders, sitting on 24 | thrones, seems to imply a judgment). But | the Prophets & Apostles uniquely enough in this judgment, or in | this throne, (or in `this heavenly sanc- | Heb. 8:1-5 tuary,' as we see from the writings of | Paul, the Apostle), Paul talks about the | Heb. 12:22 (12:18-29) heavenly sanctuary, the heavenly Sion. | Deu. 4:48 | In this sanctuary we see a God, a rain- | 5. Mystery of Christ. bow, a throne; living creatures stating | Eph. 3:4,9 that God is holy; which was, and is, and | Rev. 4:7-8 is-to-come -- God of the past, present, | Eze. 1:10 and future. And that this God, who is | Rev. 4:11 the Creator of all things, is holy and | Col. 1:9-20 deserves to be worshipped. | Col. 1:25-27 | | C. Sealed Book | We continue on in chapter 5, to see that | 1. Scroll. I beheld, John says, "in the right hand | Rev. 5:1 of him that sat on the throne a book" or | a scroll -- "sealed with seven seals." | (Notice, it's written on the inside and | the backside.) Well the meaning of these | things can only be speculated, until we | have solid proof, in other words, unless | we were there ourselves to see it, in | detail. | | But, what we are allowed to see in the | 2. Congregation. Scripture, (as John also beholds) [is] a | mighty angel. In this throne room were | Rev. 5:2 all these angels, "[ten] thousand times | Rev. 5:11 ten thousand, and thousands of thou- | Psa. 68:17-18 sands," are called together. | Dan. 7:10 | And, this mighty angel questions all | 3. Mighty Angel Prosecutes. those in heaven, "Who is worthy to open | Rev. 5:2 this book, and to loose the seven seals | thereof?" Clearly Scripture states, "no | Rev. 5:3 man in heaven, [nor in] earth, neither | under the earth" (of course `buried' in | other words, we do have dead in this | world, you know), was worthy to open | "neither to look thereon." | | So hey! God says in Scripture, at least | a. God's living Book, John testifies, in Scripture, that the | written in our hearts? Mystery of God -- His Book -- is sealed. | | Well, what happens is, as we continue on | 4. One Worthy to Judge. we see in Chapter 5, that John begins to | a. John's sorrow. weep until one of the elders says, "Weep | Rev. 5:4 not" John "behold, the Lion of the Tribe | b. The Lion. of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevail-| Rev. 5:5 ed to open the book, and to loose [the | seven] seals thereof." (Of which we know | the Lamb, being a symbol of Christ, is | c. The Lamb. brought to view.) | | And, John beheld a lamb, that had been | d. Is the Lamb, King? slain "in the midst of the throne and of | Rev. 5:6 the four beasts," and the elders, with | 1 John 5:7 seven eyes and seven horns. Well, what's | Father, Spirit, Word??? the meaning of these things? | | If God, does have a revelation of Jesus | 5. God's Book is the Evidence. Christ, which he gives to him to show to | his servants, then here we begin to see | a. Another pointer to Jesus. the meaning of these things. We see that | God has a Book, which must be hereafter, | (sometime after John's day; can-not be | before John's day). The event is clearly | identified as [one] which must be in the | hereafter. And in this event, there's a | Judgment that takes place. | | The Question -- `Who is worthy?' (The | 6. Innocent Victim. answer, `No man.') The Answer to this -- | `Only the Lamb.' So, [in] Scripture the | Jesus Christ is a man. Lamb comes to the One on the Throne and | Rev. 5:7 takes the Book out of his Right Hand, | Rom. 8:34 and all of heaven bows before Him, and | Rev. 5:8,14 gives Him glory and honor. And then John | Who is the Lamb? beheld the Lamb, in Chapter 6, beginning | to OPEN THE SEALS. | | | D. Overview of the Seals. | Now, I've heard a lot of statements the | 1. Let the Record Show. past couple of days, from people that | are versed in Scripture, from people | that are students of the Bible, saying | this and saying that about the meaning | a. Message or Seal?? of these seals. But remember, we already | see that in heaven, Christ, when he | reveals the seals -- He is the only one | that can do so. And remember, it's al- | ready been said it's a revelation of | b. Father, Holy Spirit, and Son Him, so there's a mystery between God | the Father, His Book, and Christ, and | c. No doubt Koresh is Christian what He is to reveal. | | What Scripture does tell us though, is | 2. First Seal. that John beheld The Lamb open the 1st | a. Thunder? Perhaps a clue. seal in chapter 6, there was a noise of | Rev. 6:1 thunder, and one of the 4 beast said | come and see. John witnessed... . John witnessed that when he opened | the 1st seal, there was "behold a white | b. The rider on the white horse horse:" and he that sat up on him had a | Rev. 6:2 crown, a bow was given to him, "and he | Is this rider good or evil? went forth conquering, and to conquer." | | Well, how does this reveal Christ? Oh, | c. Speculations. well, a lot of people will tell you this | was the early christian church. The | a hint white horse is a symbol of purity. Some | 2 Cor. 4:2,3,12-18 even say this is the anti-christ, but | now wait a minute. A lot of opinions | opinions have been given on this subject. | | 3. Second Seal. So also on the 2nd seal. The man on the | a. The rider on the red horse red horse has a great sword, going forth | Rev. 6:4 (you know) killing one another... I mean | come on! Is this a revelation of Jesus | What is the message from God Christ? | being revealed by Christ? : : : | 4. An Executive Overview: | o [The first seal] | a. Rev. 6:2 (ie The 1st Seal) | One who has "a bow", "conquering and | The march of governments?? to conquer" -- sounds like war. | But we are more than | conqerors. Rom. 8:37 (31-39) | o And the 2nd seal. | b. Rev. 6:4 (cf. 1:16) | "A great sword", "that they should | Truth wielded as a weapon, kill one another" -- sounds terrible. | but not in love -- cuts both | ways. Eph. 4:15 | o The 3rd seal. | c. Rev. 6:5-6 (cf. 9:4) | [The] "man on a black horse," has bal- | Not worth selling your ances. You know. What's this wheat and | birthright or your soul for. barley stuff? "Hurt not the oil and | Mat. 16:26 Mar. 8:36,37 the wine." | Luk. 21:34 Heb. 12:15,16 | Deu. 29:17-20 | o The 4th seal. | d. Rev. 6:7,8 (cf. 1:17,18) | "A pale horse," [and the] name of the | Fear not, the Son of man one who sits on there is Death, and | holds the keys to hell Hell follows him. How can these things | and death. reveal Christ? | 1 John 4:18 | o The 5th seal. | e. Rev. 6:9-11 (cf. 7:14) | Souls under [the] altar crying to God | Rom. 8:35,36 to avenge their blood which was shed | So, so many impatient upon the earth. I mean, what is this? | children under foot. | How many times... | | Rev. 1:9 2:2,3,19 | 3:10 13:10 | 14:12 22:11 | Mat. 18:23-35 | Luke 8:15 21:19 | Rom. 5:3,4 8:25 15:4,5 | 2 Cor. 6:4 12:12 | Col. 1:11 | 1 The. 1:3 | 2 The. 1:4 | 1 Tim. 6:11 | 2 Tim. 3:10 | Heb. 6:12 10:36 12:1 | Jam. 1:3,4 5:7,10,11 | 2 Pet. 1:6 | Tit. 2:2 | o The 6th seal. | f. Rev. 6:12-17 | Suns and stars being darkened. The hea-| Joel 2:31 Psa. 102:26 vens depart as a scroll. The sons of | Rev. 6:14 men crying to the rocks and mountains | Isa. 34:4 Heb. 1:10-12 to hide them from the face of the One | Rev. 6:16 (cf. 1:16) who sets upon the Throne. I mean, The | One who sets upon the Throne -- that's | Perhaps they hide in an The Father, that's The Rock, isn't it? | effort to shield themselves What can these things mean? | from the glory of the Lord. | | Gen. 3:8 | Exo. 3:2-4 19:18 | 24:17 33:20-23 | 34:34,35 | Deu. 4:11,12,24 9:3 | Psa. 37:6 97:3-6 | Isa. 30:26 | Dan. 7:9 | Nah. 1:5,6 | Hab. 3:3-5 | Zec. 14:12 | | Acts 26:13 | Heb. 12:18,25-29 | 2 The. 1:7-10 | 1 Pet. 4:12 | 2 Pet. 3:7-12 | 1 Joh. 1:5 | | Rev. 14:10-12,18 16:7,8 | o The 7th seal is opened. | g. Rev. 8:3 | And all of a sudden `the angel at the | Rev. 6:9 8:3-5 9:2,13 altar.' Then we begin to see the open- | Rev. 11:1 14:18 16:7,8 ing of the trumpets. | | Remember now, the 7th seal, contains all | 5. Key Bestowed by God. the information from that point -- to | the rest of the Bible. The trumpets con- | tain a very interesting and unique story,| but remember, we've got to understand | `how to find the key' to interpret these | things -- not with our opinions, but | with the Mind of God. And no one can do | 1 Cor. 2:16 that, unless we have the Spirit of God. | John 6:63 16:13 And no one can have that, unless God | Psa. 119:50 gives it to us. | 1 The. 3:13 | 2 Cor. 3:3 | Eph. 4:30 | Now let me review. | E. A Short Review. | Notice how during the 6th seal, the | 1. In Seal 6 -- Who Can Stand? question is asked in the time of God's | (note this) apparent wrath, who shall be able to | stand? "For the [great] day of his wrath | Rev. 6:17 is come; and who shall be able to stand?"| Psa. 76:7 | Notice, how that in, the next chapter, | 2. Sealing the 144,000. chapter 7, NOT an additional seal is | the tribulation harvest opened, but an answer. John sees that he | beheld "four angels standing on the four | Rev. 7:1 9:4 corners of the earth, holding the four | winds of the earth, that the wind should | Rev. 9:4 8:7 not blow on the earth, nor on the [sea, | James 1:11 Deu. 29:23 nor on any tree.]" | | And he saw an "angel ascending from the | 3. Seal of the Living God east, having the seal of The Living | Rev. 7:2 9:4 14:1 God:" What could that seal be? Who is | 2 Cor. 1:21,22 3:3 The Living God? Is the Living God the | Eph. 1:13 4:30 One on the Throne? Does the Living God | 2 Tim. 2:19 have something that we need to know? | Exo. 13:9,16 Does the Living God have some kind of | Deu. 6:8 11:18 seal? What could the SEAL be? We know | there's seven seals, but that's sealed. | Son, Spirit, Word ??? No one can know that, but Christ. Well, | Doesn't the sun rise in who is that angel from the east? | the east? | Yes, in Matthew 24, a lot of ministers | 4. Risen Son. confront me and say, there will be many | false prophets in the latter days. For | Mat. 24:3,11 remember, Christ told his disciples | then, that when they see the "abomina- | Mat. 24:15 tion of desolation," as spoken of by the | Dan. 9:27, 12:11 Prophet Daniel, they would understand | something. And he also said, that when | Mat. 24:23,26 they shall say `[he's] in the desert...' | [then] go not forth, `he's in the secret | chamber, believe it not.' For as light- | Mat. 24:27 ning in the east, shall shine unto the | Rev. 10:1 west; so also [shall the ] Son of man be.| Zec. 9:14 | | == < end of part 2 of 4 > == Article 21476 of alt.conspiracy: Xref: bilver alt.conspiracy:21476 talk.politics.misc:110409 Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc Path: bilver!tous!tarpit!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.uta.edu!utarlg.uta.edu!b645zaw From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) Subject: Koresh Doctrine -- 3 of 4 Message-ID: <23APR199307090181@utarlg.uta.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@news.uta.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: utarlg.uta.edu Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 13:09:00 GMT Lines: 412 Koresh Text from 3-02 (part 3 of 4) | Analysts' Notes jst/sdt ======================================== | ================================== | F. The 7th Seal. | [When the] 7th seal opens -- there's | 1. Trumpets. silence. And 7 angels and 7 trumpets pre-| Rev. 8:1 (7 & 8 cf. 14) pare themselves to sound. And it appears | Rev. 8:2,6 that some terrible plagues takes place. | Rev. 8:7-13 9:1-12 What could these things mean? Well, just | as there was an interruption under the | 6th seal, so is there an interruption | Rev. 9:13 under the 6th trumpet. Under the 6th | trumpet we learn about a mighty army of | Rev. 9:16 200 million. What are they doing? | | Well, we see, that during the break of | 2. 7th Angel(?) this in chapter 10, a Mighty Angel comes | Rev. 10:1 down from heaven, "clothed with a cloud, | Rev. 1:7 14:14 Mat. 26:64 .. his face ... as it were the sun ... | his feet are pillars of fire" and he has | Rev. 10:2 "in his hand a little book opened." He | Rev. 5:7 puts his right foot on the [sea], left | Koresh reversed earth & sea foot on the [earth] and cries and a lion | Rev. 10:3 roars. And when he had cried, "seven | Dan. 12:4,10 thunders uttered their voices." Now what | are these 7 thunders? What do these | things mean? How do we categorize this | book? What are we really looking at? | Well... | | Remember, it is the Revelation of Jesus | 3. "I Do Solemnly Swear." Christ, which God gave to Him, and re- | a. Another pointer to Jesus. member the most fearful warning, ever | given to man in Scripture is the warning | Rev. 22:15 found in Revelation 22, where Christ | Rev. 22:18 says, "For I testify to every man that | hears the word of this prophecy: If any | "Let none of you imagine man should add to the words of this | evil in your hearts against prophecy, God shall ADD unto him the | his neighbor" plagues that are written in this pro- | Rev. 22:19 phecy. And, if any man shall take away | 1 Peter 2:1-25 from the words of this prophecy, God | Zec. 8:16,17 shall take away his name OUT of the | Pro. 3:29,30 Lamb's Book of Life, and from the things | in prophecy." | | Now that's fearful. That means the book | 4. Orderings. is not to be messed with or pranked with | by anybody who would dare, think, that | they, can by speculation, or private | opinions, unlock the mysteries of the | Rev. 22:10... seals and what they contain. Remember | the events of the 7th seal, contained | "Seal not the sayings of from the 7th chapter on -- the trumpets | the prophecy of this book" and the information thereof, just as the | 6th seal contains information thereof. | | Well then, what must be hereafter, after | 5. Hereafter. John's day? A revelation of who? Who | gave it to him? Who only can reveal it, | (Revelation 22)? Who's going to come? | Rev. 22:12,17,20 What's he going to bring, his reward? | Rev. 22:12 What is his reward? Is it true in Isaiah | Isa. 62:11 40:10 40 & 41 that, He's going to come with a | strong hand? Who is the "Behold my ser- | Isa. 42:1 40:10+ vant, whom I uphold?" What do these | things mean? | | G. The First Seal. | Well, we know in the 1st seal, that | 1. Rider on the White Horse. Christ opens it and we hear the noise of | Rev. 6:1-2 thunder. One of the 4 beasts says, "Come | and see." And behold a white horse. "He | that sat upon him had a bow; [and] a | Zec. 9:13 crown was given unto him: and he went | forth conquering, and to conquer." | | Well, in order to understand this seal, | 2. Christ's Secret. we have to find out a secret about | Christ. * In the counsel to the church | * of Philadelphia, we see Christ addresses | that church in chapter 3 of Revelation, | with this message: "And to the angel of | Rev. 3:7 the church of Philadelphia write; These | things saith he that is holy ... he that | hath the key of David, he that openeth, | and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and | no man openeth." | | Well, what does he mean to this church, | 3. Key to the Door. "I ... set before thee an open door, and | Rev. 3:8 no man can shut it: for thou hast a lit- | tle strength?" What could this mean? | What is the Key-of-David? Isaiah 22 | Isa. 22:20 talks about the Key-of-David, but it re- | fers to "Eliakim." But still, what is | the Key-of-David? | | Well, of ancient times, Christ being the | 4. God's Chosen King. root and offspring of David. David was a | 2 Sam. 7 great king in Israel. And David was | (God's covenant with David) anointed of God, being a shepherd lad. | But through the power of God he was able | 1 Sam. 17 to overthrow, the greatest obstacle in | his day, Goliath, the Philistine. sing | 5 smooth stones, he chose one, and it | Zec. 9:15,16 sunk deep into the forehead of the giant.| | Well, what happens is this. We see that | 5. Psalms Record. this David wrote 150 Psalms that are | Luke 24:44... published in most Bibles of today's | establishes correlation modern world. Now I say that because | - Law of Moses some scholars will agree, that there are | - The Prophets other psalms, too. But as far as the | - Psalms King James, and the books of that cali- | ber, we have 150 psalms. | | Well, our subject is the 1st seal. We | 6. Prophet's Account. don't want to have any opinions, though. | Mat. 7:12 We just want to simply... see if we | can't find the mystery of God in the | prophets. | | | H. The 1st Seal in Light of | The 45th Psalm. | Well, let's turn in our Bible to Psalm | 1. God's writing. 45, and let's see if we can't get some | kind of hint in regards to what the 1st | seal is. * It states here (this is the | * King James Version) -- "my heart is | Psa. 45:1 inditing a good matter. I speak of the | things which I have made, touching the | king." What could it possibly mean? What | does it mean, "my heart is inditing a | "indite" (rhet.) -- to write good matter?" Does that mean "my heart | down (a poem, speech, etc.) is inditing a good matter?" Is some- | body's heart inditing a good matter? | Heb. 8:10 10:16 "I speak of things I have made touching | the king." Does that mean by interpre- | Is this about God's Law (His tation "I speak of the things I have | righteousness), written in made touching the king?" Is our subject | our own hearts and minds (as about a king? Is our subject about some- | a new covenant)? Writing as body's heart? Is our subject about "my | in Speaking The Word -- a tongue is the pen of a ready writer?" | new "Living God" being born? | Now, who is talking here? Well, natural- | 2. David Anticipates. ly David of Old is talking here -- cor- | rect? Well, who is the king he's talking | about? Solomon?? Well, let's see. "Thou | Psa. 45:2 art fairer than the children of men: | (also compare Psa. 72) grace is poured into thy lips: therefore | God has blessed thee for ever." Well, | Solomon was a wise man wasn't he? Ok, it | says here, "Gird thy sword upon thy | Psa. 45:3 thigh, O most mighty, [] with thy glory | and thy majesty." "And in thy majesty | Psa. 45:4 ride prosperously because of truth ..." | | I wonder what Solomon rides? Probably, | 3. Rider. rides a horse, doesn't he? "...and meek- | ness and righteousness; and thy right | Rev. 19:11 hand shall teach thee terrible things." | Huh? I guess with a sword in you right | hand, you could learn a lot of terrible | things. Whoa (in verse 5), "Thine arrows | Psa. 45:5 are sharp in the heart of the King's | enemies; whereby the people fall under | thee." Hmmm. Solomon doesn't seem really | like too nice of a guy. That is if | you're enemy. | | But anyway, "Thy throne, O God, is for | 4. Thy Throne, Thy God. .." (Huh? Wait a minute!) "Thy throne, | Psa. 45:6 O God is for ever and..." (Now, wait a | minute.) Is David saying that Solomon is | God? No, he's probably just saying that | God is God. Huh. Well, why would a pro- | phecy about Solomon have to do with | God's throne? "Thy throne, O God, is for | Heb. 1:8 ever and ever: the sceptre of thy king- | dom is a right sceptre. Though lovest | Psa. 45:7 righteousness, and hateth wickedness: | therefore God, thy God..." (Wait a min- | ute.) "...therefore God, thy God," what | could this possibly mean? Who is what | God? "Thy God, hath anointed thee with | Psa. 89:20 the oil of gladness above thy fellows." | Heb. 1:9 This is very strange, or is it? | | Well, let's look at it again a little | 5. Key to God's Heart. closer. Scripture says that David was a | "again" man after God's own heart. (Although | 1 Sam. 13:14 David transgressed, and that in no wise | Acts 13:22 is like God's Heart.) But nonetheless, | David was a prophet, and he was in- | spired. Could it be that David was used | by God to write down God's messages that | would one day be revealed by Christ? If | Recall Psa. 45:1: Christ does have the Key-of-David, would | "My heart is inditing..." he not be able to reveal -- the Heart of | "My tongue is the pen..." God? | | God in heaven looks to be a Rock, does- | 6. The Law yields to Love. n't he? `Oh hard rock God, right. God's | Rev. 4:3 long, God's hard...' but wait a minute. | Song lyrics perhaps?? Through Christ we can see that God is | not as hard as you think he is. Look at | Rev. 4,5,6 God. Come up hither, in the light of | Keeping heart and mind the judgment, and see the Father on the | on high. throne. See the book in his right hand, | and watch him give it to Christ, and | watch him open the 1st seal. And let's | see about this man on the white horse | who has a crown and a bow. | | Now, God is the one who has written, "My | 7. From the Heart. heart is inditing a good matter: I speak | Psa. 45:1 of things which I have made..." Is God a | maker? Is he Creator? What does he want | Isa. 45:6-12,18 to talk about? [The] things he's made | When God talks things touching the king. Who is the king? | happen, as in: Could it be Christ? "My tongue is the | "Let there be light!" pen of a ready writer." Did God write a | Rev. 19:15 book? Does God want to talk about His | Isa. 29:11-12,18 Son according to a Book? Well, what does | Rev. 21:27 God then think about His Son? | | "Thou art fairer than the children of | 8. Living Word. men." Well, if that's what God thinks? | Psa. 45:2 Although, Isaiah 53 says, that they will | Isa. 53:2 see in him no beauty or desire him; God, | nevertheless says, "He is fairer than | Gen. 2:7 the children of men." Why?! "Grace, is | John 1:1-5 poured into thy lips." Huh? I guess | whatever Christ says, those who hear it, | will find grace, won't they. Therefore, | "God has blessed thee for ever." | All ye who heed the Word. | Well. "Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O | 9. Inheritance. most mighty." Is Christ the most mighty? | Psa. 45:3 Eph. 1:17-23 "With thy glory and thy majesty," I mean | Isa. 2:21 it seems like in Revelation all of Heav- | en bowed before the Lamb, did they not? | That's a lot of glory. "For thou were | Rev. 5:12,13 slain to receive power, honour, glory, | Rev. 7:9-12 riches, wisdom, kingdom, might," Oooh! | That's a lot of inheritance there. Espe- | cially in the Gospel when it says, "I | John 3:35 have received all * things from my | * < cell phone rings> Father. | John 13:3 Mark 28:18 | "And in thy majesty ride prosperously | 10. White Horse or Red Herring? because of truth." * So what could this | Psa. 45:4 truth be? What truth, in the Bible talks | * about riding a horse prosperously, and | its truth? Could it be Revelation? Could | Rev. 6:2 ?? it be the 1st seal? Maybe a truth about | Rev. 19:11 Christ? Maybe a truth about him being a | Rev. 19:12 king, (which is a crown)? Could it be a | truth, about him having a horse, riding, | conquering, and to conqueror? Huh. | Christ or anti-christ?? | So because of truth, the truth of God's | 11. God's Spirit Indwelling. Book, the heart intention of He's indit- | 2 Cor. 3:2-3 ed. His tongue is the pen of a ready | writer. And he doesn't say nothing in | God's actions. the judgement. You see, He just gives it | to the Lamb. And, you know the Lamb: | Rev. 19:13-16,21 rides prosperously; writes in truth, in | meekness and righteousness, "And thy | Isa. 35:5,8,16,17 right hand shall teach thee terrible | things." Oooh. Well, what's that in his | Rev. 5:1 right hand -- a sword or a book? | Heb. 4:12-14 | Well, what does this book teach? `My ar- | 12. Raised from the Dead. rows are sharp in the heart of the kings | Psa. 45:5 enemies.' Surely, Solomon... was he a | killer? Did he kill for God? Christ, is | David's heirs. he a killer? Did he kill for God? Will | Eph. 1:17-18,19-23 2:3 Christ ever destroy the wicked, whereby | Which is his body, the the people fall under the ? | Church, of those previ- What kind of gospel is this? | ously dead in sin. | "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:| 13. Throne. Is Christ God? "The sceptre of thy king- | Psa. 45:6 dom is a right sceptre." I mean, does he | Heb. 1:8 deserve to rule? Why? | | Does he love righteousness and hate wick-| 14. Made Glad. edness? Therefore God... is not Christ's | Psa. 45:7 God... thy God? Is not his God -- the | Heb. 1:9 Father? Is he not going to anoint him | above (with oil of gladness) above his | Isa. 61:3 fellows? What is this oil of gladness? | Psa. 89:20 | "All thy garments smell of myrrh, and | 15. Garments. aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory | Psa. 45:8 palaces," what about it made thee glad? | I mean, should Christ ever be made glad? | Eph. 5:24,30-32 Where's this at? When's this take place? | Do you hear wedding bells? | "Kings' daughters were among the honour- | 16. Daughters. able women." What's that? "Upon thy | Psa. 45:9 right hand did stand the queen in gold | def. "Ophir" -- (red dust?) of Ophir. "How can this be Christ? | Solomon's gold from Christ is God. What would he be doing | this region in Arabia? with a woman? Well, maybe she's the | Rev. 12 church. Maybe she's the spiritual | Rev. 1:20 church. Well, who's the king's daughters | Eph. 2:13-22 then? Hmmm. Maybe there's more than one | "Builded together for an church. | habitation of God through | the Spirit." | Well, whatever it may be, we know in | 17. Bride Considers Proposal. verse 10, whether it's a spiritual | Psa. 45:10 church, or a literal woman, there's one | thing required. "Hearken, O daughter, | and consider..." Consider what? Consider | "Think" about it. God's heart inditing in good matter. | Consider Who the King is. Consider who's | going to be the Powerful One. Who's go- | ing to win, considering about the Throne | of God. Considering maybe Revelation -- | Is God's Book a mystery?? who the Father gives The Book to. | Eph. 5:32 | "Incline thine ear; forget also thine | 18. Breaking Ties. own people, and thy father's house." | Psa. 45:10 continued Well, if this was a spiritual church, it | would seem kind of funny, for God to | Eph. 3:1-4,9-11 1 Pet. 3:22 tell the spiritual church, to forget her | own people, (which would be her denomi- | nation of the Father's house), which | would be..., well I thought her father | Eph. 5:6-8 would be God, if it were spiritual? | Col. 3:6 | Now, if it were a literal girl, "Hear- | 19. New Name. ken, O daughter ... consider ... incline | Psa. 45:10 cont. thine ear;" then we can understand na- | "listen" turally. If a girl is going to marry a | Isa. 62:5 man, she has to uproot [from] one family,| Mat. 19:4-6 Mar. 10:7 and join to another. Not completely, but | Mat. 19:29 we understand what we're saying. So if | "learn" she wants to listen and learn; so should | Psa. 45:11 "the king greatly desire thy beauty: for | Eph. 5:23 he is thy Lord, and worship thou him." | | "And the daughter of Tyre shall be there | 20. Radiant Beauty. with a gift." Who's Tyre? Wonder what | Psa. 45:12 (Zep. 2:15) that is? "Even the rich among the people | def. "Tyre" -- (rock) shall intreat thy favour." Rich people | city now Sur, Lebanon want to intreat the favor of this queen? | Eze. 28 (and 26 & 27) "The king's daughter is all glorious | Psa. 45:13 within." How did she become the king's | daughter? "Within?" Why is she glorious | within? Does she have a truth, or some- | Isa. 62:1-2 thin'? Is there some kind of light she | has within her? | | Her clothes are of "wrought gold." She | 21. Prospect of Children. is to be brought to the king in raiment | Psa. 45:14 (cf. Eze. 16:10) of needlework: "the virgins her compan- | Isa. 61:10 ions that follow her shall be brought | Mat. 25:1-13 unto thee." With gladness and rejoicing | Psa. 45:15 shall they be brought. They should enter | into the king's palace." Instead of thy | fathers, it shall be thy children." Now, | Psa. 45:16 what does that mean? | | Well, let's break this down. If Christ | 22. Children for God. is the Son of God, if that's the case, | Heb. 2:1 and if we all are sons of God -- if we | 2 Cor. 6:16-18 believe in Christ, then naturally every | Hos. 1:10 girl would be a daughter of God wouldn't | she? Well, we look up to the Father on | the Throne, of which we want to exalt. | We know that He is greater than all. And | He's Christ's Father, and He's also | everyones Father. And Psalms 83 says, | Psa. 82:6 (should be) God says, I say you are gods, "and all | of you are children of the most High." | | Hosea teaches us, that we're to say, "Ye | 23. King and Law. are not my people." There it should be | Hos. 1:9,10 2:23 said, "Ye are the sons of the living | God." So Christ says in the Gospels, "if | John 10:35 he called them gods, unto whom the word | of God came," the Law can not be broken. | | Well, we're ruining God's Word -- it's | 24. Word and Spirit. God's Spirit. This is what makes us | Eph. 6:17 Rev. 1:16 19:15 become born again, born by the Spirit, | 1 Pet. 1:22-23 the knowledge of God. Well... so, a girl | believes in God, and so does everybody | else that believes in God. So therefore | God the Father has many children doesn't | He. Christ being the firstborn, and ... | Col. 1:18 all thereafter that believe. But instead | of "thy fathers," it should be "thy chil-| Psa. 45:16 dren, whom thou mayest make princes in | all the earth." | | To the person that really doesn't under- | 25. Birth of Human Spirit. stand Scripture, this would seem to be | a very controversial subject. I mean, | Christ never had any wife, [thus it] has | Historically, that is. to be Spiritual. I'll make thy name "re- | Psa. 45:17 Psa. 72:17 membered in all generations: therefore | shall the people praise thee for ever | and ever." | == < end of part 3 of 4 > == Article 21477 of alt.conspiracy: Xref: bilver alt.conspiracy:21477 talk.politics.misc:110410 Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc Path: bilver!tous!tarpit!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.uta.edu!utarlg.uta.edu!b645zaw From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) Subject: Koresh Doctrine -- 4 of 4 Message-ID: <23APR199307181084@utarlg.uta.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@news.uta.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: utarlg.uta.edu Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 13:18:00 GMT Lines: 465 Koresh Text from 3-02 (part 4 of 4) | Analysts' Notes jst/sdt ======================================== | ================================== | I. The 1st Seal in the Light | of Revelation 19. | Well even if it is Spiritual we know one | 1. Triangulation. thing. We know -- that the servants of | God know -- that Psalm 45, is the very | prophecy which must be hereafter accord- | ing to the 1st seal. But just to make | sure we know it's going to be fulfilled, | let's turn in our Bible to REVELATION | Yep. It's a sermon. 19. (Just so that we can get a better | caption of what we are really looking | at.) | | Now remember, in the 18th chapter of | 2. Babylon "The Great." Revelation, we know that Babylon the | Rev. 18 Great falls. She made all nations drink | Eze. 26,27,28 of some kind of wine of the wrath of her | Isa. 13:19-20 fornication. Now, we find that something | very bad happens, and then in verse 23 | of Chapter 18 -- no more: light of the | Rev. 18:23 candles shall shine there, nor the voice | Isa. 23:8 of the bridegroom, nor the voice of the | Eze. 26,27,28 bride. | | Well, the merchants, who are the great | 3. "Great Men" of the Earth. men of the earth, it says in verse 23, | Rev. 18:23 cont. and for by their sorceries were all the | Zep. 1:10-11 nations deceived. We all know about -- | capitalization. We know about advertise- | Amos 8:4-7 ment selling something, making it better | than what it really is. For here is | Rev. 18:24 found the blood of prophets, and saints, | Hos. 12:7 "and of all that were slain upon the | earth." You see, just because people | don't accept the truth from God's Word | does not mean it's not Truth? And some | truth that we might teach can get us in | Such as, truth without love. trouble. | | But anyway, in 1st verse, Chapter 19, it | 4. The Gallery Cheers. says, and "after these things I heard a | Rev. 19:1 great voice of much people in heaven, | saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, | and honour, and power, unto the Lord our | God." Why? "For true and righteous are | Rev. 19:2 his judgments." I wonder what his judg- | ments were? | | Isaiah 51 talked about judgments of God. | 5. Righteous Judgment. Says something about, "HEARKEN to me, ye | Isa. 51:1 that seek after righteousness, ye that | seek the LORD: look unto the rock where- | by you're hewn." Again, remember in | Rev. 4:3 Revelation -- God's a rock. If God is a | Deu. 32:31 rock, he's the only one who can make us | 1 Sam. 2:2 new, right? And it says, "look to the | 2 Sam. 22:2,32 [hole of the] pit," from which you're | Psa. 18:2,31 28:1 42:9 dug. | Psa. 62:2,6 71:3 78:35 | 1 Cor. 10:4 | In Isaiah 51, it talks about Abraham and | 6. A Living Law. promises of God. Then it says, "Hearken | Isa. 51:2-3 unto me, my people; and give ear unto me,| Isa. 51:4 O my nation: for a law shall proceed | from me, and I will make my judgment to | rest for a light [of] the people." | Koresh says "to." | Now, we know that [what] the Law of God | 7. Forgive Them. commands is the 10 Commandments, but we | know when God sent His Son into the | world, he was the Law made flesh. And | Gal. 3:17 although he kept the law perfectly; | nonetheless, he also forgave based on | men's ignorance. "Father, forgive them | Luke 23:34 1 Cor. 2:8 for they know not what they do." But he | also committed his Spirit into the hands | Luke 23:46 of God, so that none would be without | Psa. 31:5 1 Pet. 2:23 excuse. | | We all know on the right hand of God | 8. The Whore is Judged. there's more light... more light, to | Not just thunderbolts. be known. So if God's judgments -- which | Rev. 16:all (note :5,7) are the 7 seals -- are righteous and | true... 'cause he judges the great whore.| Rev. 16:19 & Rev. 17 (Which no doubt a whore is not a very | faithful bride, is she? Absolutely not!) | "Which did corrupt the earth with her | Rev. 19:2 17:2 fornication, and hath avenged the blood | of his servants at her hand?" It seems | like this great whore doesn't really com-| mit itself to God, herself to God, does | she? And, she probably will be responsi- | ble for the blood of God's servants, | because she probably won't know where | Or care, preferring vain they're coming from. | imaginings. | "And again they said, Alleluia. And | 9. Do You Care? [her] smoke rose up for ever and ever." | Rev. 19:3 (cf. 14:11) So, we know Babylon-The-Great is a big | Isa. 34:10 whore, right? I mean, she's not really | very faithful, when it comes to God's | Word, when it comes to knowing God's | Truth. And I betcha she's the kind of | person that'll claim to be with a guy, | and love a guy, and not even know where | he's coming from -- that's how most | whores are, isn't it? Just think of how | Isa. 35:16,17 many people claim they love Jesus Christ,| Mal. 3:16 and that there is ... they don't even | know where the seals are found in the | prophecies. Huhhh. I wonder what that | could mean? | | "And the four and twenty elders and the | 10. Prophets and Apostles. four beasts fell down and worshipped God"| Rev. 19:4 who sat upon the Throne. And a voice | Rev. 19:5 came in heaven, verse 5 says, "Praise | our God." How many? "All ye his ser- | vants, and ye that fear him, both small | and great." | | "[And I] heard as it were the voice of a | 11. Alleluia. great multitude, and [as] the voice of | Rev. 19:6 many waters, and as the voice of mighty | thunderings saying, Alleluia: for the | Lord God Omnipotent reigneth." (All Pow- | erful reigns!) | | "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give | 12. The Marriage of the Lamb. honor to him: for the marriage of the | Rev. 19:7 Lamb", (which we learned about in Psalm | Psa. 45:15 45), "is come." So here we see that in | Rom. 7:4 Psalm 45, the Lamb only has to destroy | Hos. 2:18-23 his enemies. And who are his enemies? | Rev. 19:15,21 Those who do not believe the Word of God.| | Now, if a person never had a chance to | 13. Mitigating Circumstances. know -- you've got to forgive 'em -- for | Luke 23:34 they don't know what they do. But should | Mat. 5:44-45 anybody dare try to go against the Truth | of God, and try to hurt Christ, because | Rev. 22:11 they know not, and refuse to know, well | Who of us can judge? then, we're talking somethin' serious. | Who's worthy? | "Let us be glad [and rejoice,] and give | 14. Getting Ready. honour to him: for the marriage of the | Rev. 19:7 Lamb is come, and his wife has made | Rom. 7:4 herself ready." How do you think that | girl in Psalms 45 made herself ready? Do | By putting on the gown? you think she made herself ready by deny-| ing God on the throne? By denying the | importance of the Lamb opening the 1st | seal? Do you think she made herself | ready by denying that Christ had a Key- | of-David? Well, if so then Psalms 45 | wouldn't mean nothing to her, would it? | | But anyway, it says, to her it was gran- | 15. White Bridal Gown. ted "that she should be arrayed in fine | Rev. 19:8 linen, clean and white: for the fine lin-| Psa. 132:9 en is the righteousness of the saints." | Isa. 55:7-9 | My friends, are you right? Are you | 16. Marriage Proposal. right? Don't worry bout me. Are you | right? Does your Father sit on a throne? | Koresh Pops Does He have a Book in his hand? Did He | the Question. give it to the One you say you love? Was | the promise that I come, and my reward | is with me, was that not true? For | John 3:16 someone "that so loved the world, that | Rom. 5:8 he gave his only begotten Son," do you | 1 John 4:7-21 not believe God's Heart indites a good | 1 John 4:1,2 matter? | | The question of the judgment is not | 17. Is Conqueror also Groom?? who's done wrong, or who's done evil. | Koresh's method for The question is, "Who is Worthy?" Now, | examining scripture. Christ doesn't come to be worthy above | you. Christ comes to give you his knowl- | edge, his righteousness. And is it not | Does what you see in the right that Psalms 45 is the same as the | 1st seal depend on whether 1st seal? Is not Revelation 19 confirm- | YOU personally are seeking ing this? | out Christ, or anti-christ? | Well, if she has the righteousness of | 18. Arriving at the Truth. saints, we as saints, should we not know | rightly how to divide the Word of God... | (line upon line, precept on precept; to | Isa. 28:10,13 see here, there; and a little here, and | Isa. 34:16,17 there a little.) ...the Truth of God? | 1 Cor. 2:1-16 | He said, "Write, Blessed are they which | 19. Marriage Supper. are called unto the marriage supper of | Rev. 19:9 the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are | the true sayings of God." Well, some | people may not think so. | | But now notice how John wanted to fall | 20. The Testimony is The Spirit. down and worship before the feet of the | Rev. 19:10 angel which showed him these things? He | said, "See thou do it not" for "I am thy | Same as Rev. 22:8,9 except: fellowservant, and of thy brethren..that | "... the prophets, and of have the testimony of Jesus: worship | them which keep the sayings God: for the testimony of Jesus is the | of book: worship God." spirit of Prophecy." | | What do yo want to do? Do you want to | 21. What are You Looking For? learn about the wrath of Christ by him | riding a white horse into heaven and | Phi. 1:14-19 destroying the unbelievers? Or would you | Are not "bonds" also "seals" rather him just come, and teach you | Phi. 2:1-11 these things ahead of time? | | And John saw, "heaven opened, and behold | 22. Who Gives You Knowledge? a white horse; and he that sat upon him | Rev. 19:11 was called Faithful and True, and in | righteousness he doth judge and make | war." He doesn't do it out of unrigh- | teousness. There's a truth that's almost | 2,000 years old called the Revelation. | And men have built up empires, and chur- | ches, all in the name of Christ. But | have they given to their people the | knowledge of which only the Lamb can | give? No. | | "His eyes were as a flame of fire," the | 23. The Nature of Truth. way he sees with 7 eyes -- really burns. | Rev. 19:12 "And on his head were many crowns." He | takes those from the kings of the Earth, | Rev. 4:10,11 21:24 you know. And he "had a name written, | that no man knew, but he himself." | | People don't understand what the name | 24. The Meaning of Koresh. Koresh means. No one knows. Scholars can | "Cyrus" is the Persian name not tell you. Look at all the concor- | for the sun, and in Hebrew dances, and they don't know. But it's | is "Koresh," which is the found in Isaiah 45. It was originally a | same as the Egyptian "Phrah" name given to a Persian king, who over- | Isa. 45:1+ threw ancient Babylon. But there's a | Rev. 10:1,7 mystery to the name Koresh. He was | "clothed with a vesture dipped in blood,"| Rev. 19:13 because people don't like to learn the | Gen. 37:31 truth that's not out of their own head. | "And his name is called The Word of God."| John 1:1 1 John 5:7 | That's why so many times Christ has to | 25. The Word Paves the Way. be rejected. For people know not the | If the prophets were all killed, Word of God, and without knowing the | their very blood would cry out Word of God -- The Book -- they'll not | from the rocks of earth to give know the seals. Without knowing the | the testimony of the Spirit of seals, they'll do unto Christ, fulfil- | prophecy -- had we not The Word. ling, (Isaiah.. excuse me), Matthew 24, | Mat. 23:34,35 24:28 where the carcass is, "there will the | Heb. 11:4 eagles be gathered together." | Which speaks volumes to | patriots. | Why? Because Isaiah says he'll come with | 26. The Sealed Book is the Word. a strong hand, and what's stronger than | Job 39:27-30 that book of seven seals? That's the | Isa. 11 18 40 Word of God, fulfilling what it says in | John 7:16-18 12:44-49 John: He that believeth on me, believeth | Rev. 5:7 shows the Lamb not on me, but on him that sent me. "For | takes the Book out of my doctrine is not my own, but his that | God's strong right hand sent me." "And the armies" which are "in | -- the hand of power. heaven followed him upon white horses." | Rev. 19:14 There -- that's the Armageddon here -- | clothed in fine linen, white and clean. | And written in black & white | Now, Isaiah 13 will tell you more de- | J. Other Testimony. tail. Just like in Joel 2. You'll also | learn in Joel 2, as well as Zephaniah, | and Amos, and Hosea, all the different | prophecies referring to these seals. | | | K. Unlocking the Psalms. | Now let me emphasize something to you | 1. A Key-of-David. again, when you read Psalms 1, always | Psa. 1:5 keep your mind up-hither -- remember -- | In other words, "on high," I'm giving you a Key-of-David now. | -- look first always for | for God. | I'll share with you. Every time you read | 2. Revelations and Psalms. a psalm, like in Psalms 1, the judgment | is the one spoken of in Revelation 4 and | 5. When you read Psalms 2, `the heathen | Psa. 2:1 that rage, that imagine vain things,' | they're the ones whose thoughts are con- | trary to the thoughts of God. "Against | Psa. 2:2 the Lord, and against his anointed, say- | ing, Let us break their bands asunder | Psa. 2:3 and cast their cords from us." | | You see, when the Lamb comes again, | 3. Breaking the Bands. there's only one way to know who he is, | What's important is that he has to reveal the 7 seals. `That men | the Lamb knows you. may not be judged by the law, for all | Rom. 3:23 have broken the law and come short of | Gal. 3:21-29 glory of God.' That they be might be | judged by nothing more than Truth. | | 'Cause, notice in Psalms 2, `the heathen | 4. God Judges the Nations. rage, and they imagine a vain thing.' | Psa. 2:1-3 They want to stop this anointed one; | `let us break his bands asunder.' What | do you think that is? How many bands are | there on the book? There are seven bands | on the book. Why this is happening today,| A seal is also a vow. and He that sits in heaven, (that's the | Father you know), sitting on the Throne, | He laughs. He laughs while men begin to | Psa. 2:4 make the worst mistake they've ever made.| All the nations, from Babylon, to Persia,| Psa. 2:5 Greece, and Rome, were judged by a judg- | ment, and they fell when it became time | for God to make them fall. | Now, yes, in Psalms 2 it says, "I will | 5. Children of God. declare the decree: the Lord hath said | Psa. 2:7 unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have | I begotten thee." Well, aren't we all | sons of God if we hear the words of God? | | Now, the Psalms are not written because | 6. Warnings of Psalms. Christ is desiring to destroy mankind. | On the contrary. The warnings of Psalms | 1, in the light of the Judgment, is so | that men might fear, and receive redemp- | tion. The same is Psalms 2. Absolute | terrible warnings are given, such as, `I | Psa. 2:8-9 will dash them to pieces with a rod of | iron,' right? We know that Christ would | never want to do that. | | But, finally, it comes to a time when | 7. The Time for Judgment. judgment must begin. Clearly, it says | `Now therefore be ye wise, ye kings of | Psa. 2:10 the earth, be instructed ye judges of | the earth. "Serve the Lord with fear, | Psa. 2:11 rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, | Psa. 2:12 lest he be angry, and ye perish from the | way, when his wrath is kindled but a | little. Blessed are all they that put | their trust in him." | | Now, ministers should show you where the | 8. The High Road. seals are. I have just given you a small | There do seem to be alter- little taste. Is Psalms 45 the same as | nate views of the same Revelation? Doesn't that make it plain? | events; other writings of It's the subject of Christ getting mar- | the Prophets & Apostle's ried [and] a subject of Christ having to | likewise. deal with the enemies, (who believe not | Psa. 1:1-5 God's Word). Does not Psalms 1 teach us | to stand in the Judgment, don't sit in | As in standing the seat of the scornful, or of the sin- | to be married. ners? | | Only God's thoughts are holy. And when | 9. God's Thoughts. God's thoughts be revealed in the seven | "God's thoughts" are only seals, all true Christians should make | a partial aspect of God, that their first and foremost interest. | better is to love God, | (speaking as a child). | In Psalms 2, why do the heathen have to | 10. Heathen Rage. rage, why do they have to fight the guy | Psa. 2:1-3 that's got the seals? | Isn't God's Word more | important than the seals? | In Psalms 3, who's the person there that | 11. Many Say No Hope. says, `Many say of my soul there's no | Psa. 3:2 help for him in God.' | Historically, it's King | David, as he fled from | his son Absalom. | How come people have to judge according | 12. Looking Beyond the Image. to appearances of things, but they won't | There do seem to be mul- open their eyes and ears, and hear where | tiple levels of meaning. a person's coming from? In Psalms 4, who | is the one speaking there where it says, | `O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn | Psa. 4:2 my glory into shame? how long will you | It does seem to be a seek after leasing, and love vanity?' | dialogue between David | and God. | "But know that the LORD has set apart | 13. Set Apart. him that is godly for himself: the LORD | Psa. 4:3 will hear when I call unto him." Who in | the heavens has God separated from all | of heaven, (a part that is godly for him-| How 'bout The Word? self). | | | III. Conclusions. | The Lamb, who wishes to judge no man af- | A. Keep the Word. ter the flesh, but gives to all men a | truth in fulfillment of the testimony of | The passage actually John: that `If you continue in my doc- | says: If you continue trine, then you are my disciples indeed, | in "my word" and ye shall know the truth, and the | John 8:32 truth shall set you free.' | | In Zechariah, who is the man on the red | B. The Rest of the Seals. horse? Doesn't Revelation talk about a | Zec. 1:8 man on a red horse? How does it apply? | Rev. 6:3-4 In the 3rd seal, the Book of Hosea, who | is that merchant man with "the balances | Hos. 10:7 of deceit," that Hosea speaks of? Could | Mic. 6:11 it be that man who has balances -- who's | trying to sell? I mean, what are we | dealing with here? Where is the 4th seal | found in the prophecies? The 5th seal? | The 6th seal? | | The importance of the seals is that if | C. The Importance of the Seals. you do not listen, you are going to end | up making the worst mistake, you've ever | made, in all of your lives. | | We made an agreement, with the ATF | D. ATF Promises agents, that if they would allow me, to | have national coverage with this tape, | that I might give to the world a small | minute... a small minute bit, of the | information that I have tried so hard to | share with people; that if I would do | this, that all the people here at the | facility ("compound" here, as y'all call | it) will give ourselves over to the | world, give ourselves out to you. And | this is what I promised. And this is | what we're going to keep. | | Now remember, Revelation Chapter 13 | E. Those of the Dragon. tells us, very clearly what our ideology | should be toward that beast, and all the | world that wonders after that beast. Who | do they worship? Remember, before I said | it to you, God said it. They worship the | dragon. And will Christ give up on any- | body for worshipping the dragon unwill- | ingly? No. Just like the woman at the | John 4:2 well. `Woman, you know not whom you wor- | The text actually refers ship,' Christ told her. | to "what" -- not "whom. | But now, in Spirit and in Truth, let's | F. Heavenly Perspective. come up hither to where I come from. | Let's believe in a God on the throne | God's not a "what." now. All churches. Papacy, Lutherans, | we're all brethren. But let's get into | unity with one God, one Truth, one Lamb, | 1 Cor. 1:10 one Spirit -- and let's receive the | reward of righteousness. | | Analysts: Stephen Tice Thank you very much. God Bless You. | James Trimm | == < end of part 4 of 4 > == (Arlington Texas, 4-23-93) | -- J -- | | stephen

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