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From: ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com (Otto Heuer #3) Date: 2 Dec 93 07:53:08 GMT Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc Subject: FAQL: TIME LOOPS, YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE, AND TASHA YAR EXPLAINED Archive-Name: faql.rec.arts.startrek.time.loops TIME LOOPS, YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE, AND TASHA YAR EXPLAINED (last updated 15 October) This posting is intended to cut down on the "often asked questions" that seem to pop up every few months in the rec.arts.startrek.misc newsgroup concerning "Yesterday's Enterprise" and Tasha's life and death. It is one of a number of periodic postings posted to r.a.s.*. Please refer to the "LIST OF PERIODIC POSINGS TO r.a.s.* NEWSGROUPS" article for a full list of periodic postings. I've expanded this list a bit more (it originally only explained Tasha Yar) so if anyone wants to contribute to the new sections, feel free to send me a note. I've added a few contributions, have a few more to sift through, and still welcome more explanations to possible points of confusion in TNG. =========================================================================== INDEX =========================================================================== 1. TOS: The Guardian of Forever ("City on the Edge of Forever") 2. TOS: The slingshot effect ("Tomorrow Is Yesterday") 3. TOS: Cold-starting the warp engines ("The Naked Time") 4. TOS: Mr. Atoz's time travel system ("All Our Yesterdays") 5. TOS: Isis' time-space transporter ("Assignment: Earth") 6. TNG: Time hiccup ("We'll Always Have Paris") 7. TNG: Picard from the future ("Time Squared") 8. TNG: Enterprise from the past ("Yesterday's Enterprise") 9. TNG: Riker thinks he's in the future ("Future Imperfect") 10. TNG: Aliens from the future ("Captain's Holiday") 11. TNG: Visitor from the past ("A Matter of Time") 12. TNG: Time loop ("Cause and Effect") 13. TNG: Data in the past ("Time's Arrow") 14. TAS: ("Yesteryear") 15. NOV: ("Killing Time") 16. NOV: ("Ishmael") 17. NOV: ("Entropy Effect") 18. NOV: ("Home Is The Hunter") 19. NOV: Tasha & The Guardian of Forever ("Imzadi") 20. MOV: BoP goes to 1980s for whales ("ST4: The Voyage Home") --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER IN TOS: CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER a) Why did everyone disappear when McCoy went back in time? Because he saved Edith Keeler from being his by a vehicle. b) Why didn't the people on the planet disappear when the Enterprise did? They were protected by the Guardian of Forever. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. THE SLINGSHOT EFFECT IN TOS: TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. COLD STARTING THE WARP ENGINES IN TOS: THE NAKED TIME --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. MR. ATOZ'S TIME TRAVEL SYSTEM IN TOS: ALL OUR YESTERDAYS --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. ISIS' TIME-SPACE TRANSPORTER IN TOS: ASSIGNMENT: EARTH a) Q: When the Enterprise crew looked at their records, they found out that the rocket did explode 104 miles above the earth. Wouldn't their records have been "changed" as soon as they interfered? The records would have "always" shown that, even though they JUST made it happen. A: The Enterprise, being in the past, is not retroactively altered. Her records are unchanged. When they return to the future, their records will no longer match what Starfleet's records say. b) Isis' transporter *may* have gone through time. Scotty wasn't sure. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. THE TIME HICCUP IN TNG: WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE PARIS a) Why were there multiple copies of Data in this episode? Presumably the "hiccup" is more pronounced the nearer you are to the source. The first time it was small (Picard and his fencing partner realise they saluted TWICE), then bigger (Picard, Worf and Data in the corridor see their duplicate selves in the turbolift for several seconds before the "hiccup" passes), and in Manheim's lab it's major, hence three of Data. b) Why was one of the copies more accurate than the others? The Manheim effect was never known to double-up on itself. For example, there would never be a you, a you from 5 minutes in the past, and a you from 10 minutes in the past (or, likewise, two from the future). If either of the end Datas had been the "real" one, the effect would have had to have doubled-up. The only choice left was that the middle Data was the one (having just one past aspect and just one future aspect). As for why it was important to know which one was which, my guess would be that if the present aspect waited for the future aspect to pour the antimatter, the future aspect would never do it because the present aspect would be waiting the whole time. A similar argument could be constructed for the past aspect. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7. PICARD FROM THE FUTURE IN TNG: TIME SQUARED Why were there two Picards in this episode? The original version of this episode had it as a two-parter with "Q-Who", and it was Q who (noticing that the Enterprise had destroyed itself) threw Picard in the shuttle back six hours to let him try to change what had happened. As a result of being thrown back in time, Picard2 is "out of sync"--unable to move or speak at first, but slowly returning to 'normal' as they approach the time at which the Enterprise will apparently be annihilated. Shortly before zero hour, a big hole in space appears under the Big E, drawing it in. One by one their attempts at escape are thwarted - an energy bolt destroys their probe, and the pulling force easily outmatches the warp engines. The solution finally appears when Picard2, now fully conscious, heads towards the shuttlebay. Picard follows him, ordering Riker to stay put on the bridge. In the shuttlebay, Picard asks Picard2 why he is abandoning the ship. Picard2 answers that it is "the only way". At this point Picard figures it out - he stuns Picard2 and orders the ship to turn around and fly at maximum speed *into* the hole. As a result, Picard2 vanishes and the hole with him, leaving them where they were originally. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8. TASHA YAR AND TNG: YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE FIRST TRY AT AN EXPLANATION (ottoh@cfsmo.honeywell.com): A lot of people seem to be having trouble understanding the time travel involved in this episode (and cluttering up the net every few months because of this). I'm not the best at explaining these sorts of things, and if anyone else can in less space, feel free to email me. Anyway... in "YE" they start out in the "peaceful" timeline indicated by the top line in the diagram below (A)-->(B)-->(C). When the Enterprise-C broke through the barrier (due to an explosion in a battle between the Enterprise-C and Romulans that were attacking a Klingon outpost), it changed history as we know it (from the time of the battle onward) to a more hostile one (in which the Klingons are at war with the Federation and Tasha didn't die at the "hands" of Armus (b)). When they sent the Ent-C back through the rift, it fixed whatever went wrong with the Klingons/Federation, and restored the timeline to the one we know (including Yar being dead at the hands of the slime beast in a Glad Bag (B)). So no, Yar isn't still alive these days. And also no, Yar didn't "never exist and thus couldn't have died due to Armus". *Everything* we know about the time before "YE" happened exactly as we saw because sending the alternate-Yar back repaired all the damage to time. The only change is that somewhere between (A) and (B), the alternate Tasha had a daughter Sela, and was apparently killed trying to escape. The line from (c)--->(A) represents the Enterprise-C being sent back in time through the rift. (A) is the time of the Ent-C's battle with the Romulans (B) and (b) is the time around "Skin of Evil" (C) and (c) is the time around "Yesterday's Enterprise" (D) is the later seasons of TNG Armus kills Tasha ----------------> (B) ----------------> (C) ---------> (D) / / / Ent-C (A) <-------------------------------------- battle \ \ \ \ \ \ ----------------> (b) ----------------> (c) Armus doesn't kill Tasha - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SECOND TRY AT AN EXPLANATION (stolen from someone else): There is one real timeline - the one where Tasha gets killed by a mud monster AND where an alternative time-line Tasha has a daughter called Sela (apparently - I haven't seen Redemption but I think I've got the idea). The only alternative time-line (well, as far as Tasha is concerned) is the alternative one we see in Yesterday's Enterprise. Time for an ASCII-diagram! : Real timeline : --------------- Alt Tashsa gets sent back through Alt Tasha Real Tasha Alt Tasha Real Tasha Sela wormhole into the gives birth born dies (old killed turns up real timeline. to Sela. | age?) | | | | | | | | V V V V V V ...-----------------------------------~~--------------------------------... <-------- Alt Tasha lives -----~~---------> <-------------~~------- Sela lives -------------... ^ <-~~- Real Tasha lives -> | | +-------<---------------<-----------------<--------------+ | ^ Alternative timeline : | ---------------------- Alt Tasha Alt Tasha decides to go born through | wormhole | | V V ...----------------------------------~~--------------------------------... <-~~- Alt Tasha lives ------> Yes, there are two Tashas alive at the same time, living seperate lives but this doesn't mean that they are constantly mucking up history. They are simply two seperate people - maybe they have the same DNA structure but so what - you can think of them as clones if you like. History wasn't even changed - history has always been like this. During the first season we saw the real Tasha walking about, but the Alternative Tasha was around as well, we just didn't see her. Just to clarify this point let's look at the Enterprise-C's history. The E-C starts off in the real timeline, gets transported through the wormhole into the alternative timeline. Then the events off Yesterday's Enterprise occur and the alternative Tasha decides to go back through. The E-C then returns to the real timeline and gets captured by the Romulans. The problem is what was the wormhole that the "real" timeline crew saw right at the beginning of Yesterday's Enterprise? According to my chart nothing special happens at all at that point in the real timeline. My theory is that the wormhole just happened to occur at the same time in the real timeline as it did in the alterantive one. The real Guinan then somehow projected her conciousness through the wormhole (not on purpose) and into the alternative Guinan, making her believe that everything was wrong. This just happened to be at the same time as the E-C came through. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - THIRD TRY AT AN EXPLANATION (batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk): AMA, There are Three timelines involved, not two. The first timeline is the Trek timeline prior to YE ( NORM ). In this timeline, the Enterprise-C is destroyed and everything proceeds normally. However, something interacts with a superstring to create a temporal rift. This rift extends back to the events of the Enterprise-C battling the Romulans and in doing so creates a new timeline: Alternate time line 1 ( A1 ). In this timeline, the high energy interaction with superstring material ( quoth the Raven... ) throws the Enterprise-C into the ( subjective ) present and - BANG! New timeline. Alternate time line 2 ( A2 ). This timeline has been caused by no- Ent-C in the past and is the Militaristic timeline from YE. In this timeline, the Ent-C is sent back to A1 - but with Tasha Yar on board. This is the timeline which all episodes from YE onwards are set in ( allowing us to explain a number of Trek inconsistancies with the Butterfly effect, provided the insonsistancies occur in pre and post YE episodes ). Now for the important bit. There is only ONE timeline 'active' ( as I believe this is how Star Trek time is intended to function ). The reason for this is: The wormhole in NORM creates A1 and then destroys A1 and NORM to create A2. A2 then recreates A1 and destroys A2 ( the shrewd among you may point out that there are hence two different A2's, but to all intents and purposes they are equivalent ). Guinan's senses extend across time and space and hence she can realise that the A2 timeline is `wrong' ( in that there was a timeline in which no such war occured ). Sela appears in A2 only. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FOURTH TRY AT AN EXPLANATION (robinson%elux3@cs.umass.edu): This explanation is more valid than any you have (IMHO), though not as comforting. We start our journey in the timeline that is common to both the normal and the alternate timelines. The Enterprise-C is on route to Narendra III in response to a distress call. Four Romulan warbirds ambush her and a fight ensues. This fight creates a temporal rift to the future. I believe it was Data who attributed it to a massive discharge of weapons (probably by the Romulans). The Enterprise-C flees through it, so she in effect time travels forward about 22 years. We continue on with the Federation and the Klingons going to war, and so forth. THIS IS THE CORRECT TIME LINE. In this timeline, Tasha Yar does not die. So she is on the Enterprise-D when it finds the rift 22 years later and the Enterprise-C comes through it. At this time, Guinan, who can see beyond linear time, now 'sees' that Picard will send the Enterprise-C back, so time will be changed. The two timelines are both in her mind (I assume it appears now because the presence of the temporal rift somehow activates this sense in her race.) She sees the other timeline as far preferable, so she naturally assumes it is the correct timeline, but it really is an alternate timeline. This explains why she waited until then to inform Picard that 'Everything is wrong.' Because there is nothing wrong, at least until the rift showed up allowing the Enterprise-C to go back in history and change time. Now, the Enterprise-C time travels back through the rift, thus altering time and creating an alternate timeline. There are two Tasha Yars in this timeline. The two Tasha's are in no way connected. As far as the universe is concerned, they are both just matter, regardless of what meaning we assign to that matter (we call both chunks 'Tasha Yar'.) One Tasha, on the Enterprise-C is captured, has a daughter, and dies. That has always been the case, we just never knew it. The capture of the Enterprise-C might also explain why the Romulans have been able to catch up in technology, now have phasers and photon torpedoes, etc. The second Tasha lives a normal life, until she dies at the hands of Armus. Thus, the most 'valid' timeline is the one in which the Feds and the Klingons are at war. The last comment I want to make is about the Enterprise-D seeing a rift in the 'peaceful' timeline. This is a logical mistake, shown only because otherwise everyone would be confused. Ok, more likely the writer was confused. Guess that's the problem with writers having little technical background, but we already knew that :) Since the rift did exist in the past (i.e. was created by the actions at the battle, not the actions of the Enterprise-D 22 years later), it always existed. The 'normal' timeline in which the Enterprise-C showed up, was destroyed, caused peace with the Klingons, etc never existed. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9. RIKER THINKS HE'S IN THE FUTURE IN TNG: FUTURE IMPERFECT --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10. THE ALIENS FROM THE FUTURE IN TNG: CAPTAIN'S HOLIDAY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11. THE VISITOR FROM THE PAST IN TNG: A MATTER OF TIME --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. THE TIME LOOP IN TNG: CAUSE AND EFFECT Wasn't The Boseman ship in the loop for several decades? Why don't they have a *really* bad feeling of deja vu? No, the general consensus is that the ship shot forward in time to the point that the START of the Enterprise's loop began. Thanks to Mike Kelsey for this next part: The situation in "Cause and Effect" can be described similarly to that in "Yesterday's Enterprise": a space time anomaly is connecting two points which are spearated in space-time, thus: Point A (Bozeman) >-----------------------+ 2278 AD | | ^ Point B (Enterprise) 2369 AD (I think!) The Bozeman encounters a space-time anomaly at some location in the galaxy (presumably explored Federation territory) in 2278 AD. It is sucked through the anomaly (like the Enterprise-C), and appears at a different location in the galaxy (point B) in 2369 AD. At that location, the Enterprise has encountered a space-time anomaly, and observes a ship come out of it and collide with them. The Bozeman was therefore only at point B for the 36 seconds from the time it appeared to the time it collided with the Enterprise and was (presumably) destroyed along with the Enterprise (although we are *not* shown that). The loop for the Enterprise lasted about 12 hours (evening poker game through morning briefing). According to Worf's check of the Starfleet timebase beacon, their clocks were desynchronized by 17.4 days. Therefore, the Enterprise went through about 35 iterations of the loop before getting out. On the other hand, the Bozeman need not have gone through *any* iterations at all, since it was coming from somewhere else in the Galaxy (point A). >From the point of view of the Enterprise's *internal* clocks, it enters the temporal anomaly region, travels for about 12 hours, sees the Bozeman appear, then is destroyed. The Enterprise travel *back* in time according to its *interal* clocks (while the Starfleet timebase beacon keeps ticking) along with the local region of space-time anomaly. It travels for about 12 hours, then sees the Bozeman appear and is destroyed. And so on, for 35 repetitions. Note that at each explosion, it is at the *same* location in external space-time (within the anomalous region), so it is seeing the *same* Bozeman each time, which has not had to go through "loops" to get there. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13. DATA IN THE PAST IN TNG: TIME'S ARROW How can Data work on his the head they found from San Fransisco? How can there be two copies of his head? Thanks to Barry Geipel (barry@godzilla.quotron.com) for this next part (though it was probably written before part II was aired): The away team meets up with Data and Guinan in 1893. They determine that they are trapped and have no way to get back to the 24th century. They place key information in Data's head and place it in the cavern. The Away team also tells Guinan some information on how to get at the information so that the Enterprise can extract it. (As a possibile twist, they also have Mark Twain write a classic story (_Mysterious Stranger_ perhaps?) in which more information can be extracted). Also, during this time, Picard somehow saves Guinan's life (or tells her about the Borg) making it essential that Picard goes back into time. Sometime after the Away team goes down to the planet, Guinan tells Worf about her historical encounter with Picard and the Away team. With the help of the Mark Twain novel, the phase thingamajig in Data's head and any information in Data's head, Worf and the Enterprise crew rescue the Away team. Since Data must leave his head behind, Data is brought back headless and the 600 year old head is re-attached. /-------- Enterprise rescues Data @ Away Team-----\ / \ v v --A----C--D---------- Main-line History ---------E---------F--G-----> ^ / \ / \------- Data @ Away team go back in time-------------/ A - 1893 Guinan meets Picard for the first time Picard meets Guinan for the second time C - 1893 Away team places information of how to rescue them into Data's head ( as well as the phase thingimijig ), removes Data's head and places it in the cavern. Away team tells Guinan how to extract the info so that she can tell the Enterprise crew how to go back to rescue them. Also, Mark Twain puts key information into a "classic" as further reference ( _Mysterious Stranger_ ???) D - 1893 Data (minus head) and away team is rescued E - Sometime earlier in the 24th century Guinan meets Picard for the second time Picard meets Guinan for the first time F - 24th Century Data @ Away team go back to 1893 G - 24th Century Enterprise recues Data (minus head) and Away team. Data and 600 year old head are reattached. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Here is a better explanation from someone (accidentally deleted his name): The away team meets up with Data and Guinan in 1893. They discover that the space-time distortions are created by the Ophidian that the aliens use to travel in time. By itself, however, it can't make a distortion large enough for anyone to pass through. They discover the cave (the location of the archaeological dig) and Geordi discovers that the cave has been modified to focus the distortion. The aliens appear and take the cane from Troi (who is holding it) and Data tries to grab it back, just as it begins to activate. There is an explosion that blows Data's head off, his body falls to the future and his head falls in the past. Just before it closes, Riker, La Forge and Clemens jump through the portal, leaving Guinan, Picard and Data behind. Picard tends to Guinan's injuries, then fiddles with Data's head. Back in the future, Geordi is trying to get Data's 600 year old head to work on the now Headless Data. He does and Data spouts the words "Torpedos, Phasing, Alien". Picard had coded that message in data's binary memory, and they used the info so they wouldn't destroy the portal (on the future side) with normal photon torps. Bev figures out that they can use the Ophidian to send one person back to the past, so they send Clemens back to the past, who sends picard back to the future. The time line for data's head starts at his birth, lives until the 24th century, goes back in time to 1893, and waits 600 yeas to be re-attached. /-----<--Data Goes Back in Time--<----\ | | | /--->--Data returns - headless->--|---\ | | | | V ^ ^ V -------------1---------2---------------3-----------4------- 1 - Data's Head is Underground 2 - Data is "born" 3 - Data's Head is found 4 - "Old Head attached" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14. TAS: YESTERYEAR --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15. NOV: KILLING TIME --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16. NOV: ISHMAEL --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17. NOV: ENTROPY EFFECT --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18. NOV: HOME IS THE HUNTER --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. NOV: TASHA & THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER Peter David's Imzadi explained that Tasha crossed over into the Guardian Of Forever therefore living in an alternate time stream. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20. THE BIRD OF PREY GOES TO THE 1980S FOR WHALES IN ST4: THE VOYAGE HOME a) Why didn't the space-time continuum get screwed up with Scotty giving the man from the past the formula for transparent aluminum? The cop out answer to the first one is: there is no paradox because the guy McCoy and Scotty talked actually DID invent transparent aluminum, just like they say in the movie. If he didn't before, then the space/time continuum is messed up and *poof*, the Big E ceases to exist. Since this *didn't* happen, we must assume he invented it in the first place, from a diagram by Scotty. This is an infinitely-regressing explanation, since how could Scotty know about the stuff if he had to go back in time to get it invented? Aiiiieeee! b) Just how old are Kirk's glasses? Isn't this an infinite loop? Kirk's glasses need not be an infinite loop. McCoy gets them in the 23rd century and gives them to Kirk. We assume they're antiques. Kirk goes back to 1989 (or whatever) and sells them back to the antiquer. The antiquer, off camera, breaks them and throws them away. The glasses are made sometime later, maybe in the 1990s, and eventually are procured by McCoy. BUT, the antiquer said they were quite old. Say they were made in 1893 (by Data, no doubt 8-) ). Then they sat in a safe until 2288 (or whatever) when McCoy gets them for Kirk. This way they exist TWICE in the 1980s; once in an antique store (until they get sold or broken or whatnot) and once in a safe somewhere, for McCoy to eventually pick up. =========================================================================== If you know of any other topics that should be included in this list, feel free to email me at one of the addresses below. Be aware that about 10% of the mail I send out bounces, so if you don't get a reply from me, it isn't because I'm ignoring you. :-) --Otto "HACK-MAN" Heuer _____ _________ _ _____ _____ _____ _____ | ___|| _______|| | Otto E. Heuer, CEO ||___|| |_ _| |_ _| ||___|| | |__ | |___ ___| | FSD, Inc. | o | | | | | | o | | __| |___ || _ | "The innovator for |__O__| |_| |_| |__O__| | | _______| || |_| | software solutions." C, Pascal, Fortran, BASIC |_||_________||_____| Assembly Language, Snobol, Ada, APL, Prolog, LISP Unix, MS-DOS, ProDOS . . . .... . . . . . . . Audio/Video ottoh@cfsmo.honeywell.com :..: .:.:. : :.' .. :`.': .:.:. :`. : Star Trek hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org : : : : :... : `. : : : : : `: Apple IIgs

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