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(252) Thu 12 Dec 96 12:53 By: DAVID RICE To: JIM STAAL Re: ASK AND YE SHAN'T RECEIVE -=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=- >DR> May as well shake a rattle and chicken bone at the >DR> moon while they're at it. Nothing fails like prayer >DR> fails. JS> Nah. Yeah. JS> I have the compassion and open-mindedness to say with JS> Frank Sinatra: 'whatever gets you through the night'. Make-believe gets small children through the night. When one matures, wishful thinking "should" be replaced with common sense. It's the adult thing to do. JS> I have seen the effects of prayer, however, and know JS> that it does work. Of course prayer "works." So does astrology, phrenology, iridology, tarot car reading, crystal magic, tea leaf reading, palmistry, Scientology, burning sheep to Odin, and scrying. They "work" because the superstitious believe it works: not because they are valid. JS> (James 5:16 NIV) The prayer of a righteous man is JS> powerful and effective. That's not what is says. It says EFFECTIVE prayer accomplishes much. I.e. it is a non sequitur (if it were not effective, it would not accomplish anything; if it accomplishes something, it is effective). Whoever the author of the Book of James was, he did not say that prayer is "powerful and effective." The verse you tried to quote therefore does not refute the fact I uttered: nothing fails like prayer fails. Don't believe that fact? Fine. In good faith (Jam 5:14) go to a hospital and pray that all the patients in the cancer ward be healed. Intercessory prayer, in good faith, will heal these people, according to whoever wrote the Book of James (Jam 5:15-16). I prophesy in the name of Star Goat that when you observe that the patients have not been healed, you'll make lame, sillyassed excuses. ... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth. * Shy.David@EdenBBS.com --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1 * Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)

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