11h-tml> The Skeptic Tank: Alt.Religion.Scientology Archive Message - 1995
Archive Message - 1995
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Since some of the materials which describe the $cientology cult could be considered to be copywritten materials, I have censored myself and The Skeptic Tank by deleting any and all possible text files which describes the cult's hidden mythologies. I have elected to quote just a bit of the questionable text according to the "Fair Use" legal findings afforded to those who report. - Fredric L. Rice, The Skeptic Tank, 09/Sep/95 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From news.interserv.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews Wed Jul 19 09:29:10 1995 Path: news.interserv.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: esi_inc@ix.netcom.com (Tim Johnson) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,misc.legal,misc.legal.computing,misc.taxes,comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: The Noose is Tightening on CoS (was Big Suprise - 79K) (LONG) Date: 18 Jul 1995 02:19:00 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 271 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3uf5mk$3nj@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com References: <noringDBpqJz.M72@netcom.com <DBq3nJ.DwK@ceco.ceco.com <3u8enc$e34@castlsys.demon.co.uk <DBvoEo.EI8@ceco.ceco.com <19950718.001310.70@holsoft.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-chi7-04.ix.netcom.com Xref: news.interserv.net alt.religion.scientology:76444 misc.legal:62290 misc.legal.computing:10281 misc.taxes:18901 comp.org.eff.talk:57100 In <19950718.001310.70@holsoft.demon.co.uk clara@holsoft.demon.co.uk (Sister Clara) writes: In article <DBvoEo.EI8@ceco.ceco.com, a#urban@ccmail.ceco.com ("R. Urban") wrote: stevea@castlsys.demon.co.uk (Steve) wrote: (snip) Every so often, someone will delurk and blind us with the brilliance of his insight, gleaned from, ooh, *minutes* of careful study of the discussion on a.r.s. I don't access a.r.s. or alt.conspiracy or anything else that sounds like a forum for a hate group............. So you haven't even tried to find out any facts about the subject but feel knowledgeable enough to pontificate. Hate groups just try and destroy things, whether it's society or whatever. They all speak with forked tongues. They follow the "means justifies the ends" strategy, which makes lying and painting a religion out to be the devil or anything else ok. They aren't constructive at all. If they say 'this is the way things are', chances are it's probably just the opposite. I'm sorry - what "hate group" are you referring to? Are you trying to imply that critics of the Scientology organisation are organised themselves? Great theory! Amongst the critics you will find people with the whole range of political views, from many countries, united in their desire to expose the evil doings of an organisation that purports to be a religious group. You said in a previous post that you are a catholic. Fine. My partner is a catholic. I am able to criticise my partner's religion and any other religion without being accused of hatred. And I CERTAINLY do not expect to be harassed by the Catholic church as a result of any public criticism that I may or may not make. But Scientology has a long history of harassment against critics. If you could actually stir yourself enough to lurk on a.r.s for a few weeks you would see scores of documentary pieces of evidence to back up what I have just stated. As an alternative, you might like to look at some of the many web sites devoted to this issue. Recently the neo-Nazis of America (from wherever State they are based in), came to a neighboring town to try and recruit members to their destructive cause. It was the talk of the town. It was all over the local news. You should have seen them and heard what they were spouting. In fact, all the anti-religious posts fit right in there. Divide the house and conquer, huh? Uh oh. Mention of Nazis. Here we go again. Look, for goodness sake, amongst the critics we have people who belong to many religions themselves. Some of the most ardent critics of the Scientology Organisation still believe in many of the "religious" teachings associated with the cult. That is fine. What is clearly not understood here is that it is this so-called religious organisation that continually demonstrates its intolerance of any views that diverge from its own. Its oft-stated aim is to "clear" the whole planet. Do you know what this means? If not, I suggest you find out. Who defined Scientology as a religion, anyway? The answer is L Ron Hubbard. So what would you do if the Mafia decided to declare itself a religion. It has its own rituals - I am sure that a case could be made. If it were to do so, would you then attack its critics as hatemongerers? The so-called church of Scientology is a criminal organisation. I quote from a FactNet document... In 1979, nine of Scientology's top executives pleaded guilty to extensive burglaries, forgeries, infiltration, obstruction of justice, and other crimes against more than 100 Federal agencies including the Dept. of Justice, The Dept. of Defense and the I.R.S. In U.S. v. Heldt et. al., the facts showed that church personnel had secreted a documentary evidence of crime, (688 F.2d at 1243 n.8), had committed illegal break-ins and theft (id. at 1244,1247,1248), had electronically bugged government offices (ibid), had lied to federal investigators and a grand jury (id. at 1246, 1247, 1248, 1249, 1253), had suborned perjury (id. at 1247, 1253), had forcibly restrained, kidnapped, handcuffed and gagged a potential adverse witness (id. at 1244, 1273), and had formulated conspiracies to obstruct justice, steal government property, burglarize, bug, harbor fugitives from justice, and commit and suborn perjury before the grand jury (id. at n. 27 at 1258). In a memorandum urging stiff sentences for the Scientologists, federal prosecutors wrote: The crime committed by these defendants is of a breath and scope previously unheard of. No building, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lock picks, secret codes, forged credentials and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes. Note that one of those sent to prison was none other that L Ron Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard. The sentencing memorandum named L Ron himself as an "unindicted co-conspirator". But, if you could be bothered to read a.r.s, you would of course know this. Standard behaviour for a religion, isn't it? I do access some of the other newgroups though, and object to your obvious hostile attack on religion. Doesn't matter if it's not the Jews, Hitler would be proud of you. So much hate and malevolence. You really know how to stretch Godwin's Law, don't you! Well, as you have set the precedent, then let me respond in kind. The so-called Church of Scientology is an evil organisation whose sole aim is to gather adherents who will then be fleeced of every penny they may possess. It is a money-making enterprise which will stoop to any level in its actions to maintain a steady flow of income. It preys upon the weak by promising them the powers of super-beings. If an adherent offends his/her superior within the organisation then that adherent will be thrown out of the organisation or sent to its internal disciplinary regime, the RPF. Here, any and every degradation may be visited upon the wrongdoing adherent in order that they may "purge" their "evil thoughts". Adherents are persuaded to "disconnect" from non-believing family members. The so-called "beliefs" are based upon the insane ramblings of a second-rate science fiction writer who must have been immensely gratified to discover that it didn't matter what shit he spouted, his followers lapped it up. Read SCAMIZDAT - the writings posted are the teachings that the organisation does not want to world to know about. They classify many of the writings as "trade secrets". What other religion has "trade secrets"? Mind you, be very careful if you DO read SCAMIZDAT. Hubbard claimed that reading the so-called OT higher levels could render the unprepared reader dead or insane. Laugh at the stupid mythology of the cult. But don't laugh at the organisation itself. When the FBI raided the Church of Scientology in connection with the case I mention above, they discovered documents which showed a conspiracy, codenamed Operation Freakout, whose aim was to either frame a critic for a crime she did not commit or drive her insane. They very nearly succeeded. I think there is enough above for me to legitimately hate the organisation. I may not be able to convince you, Urban, but there are many thousands who read a.r.s who are as convinced as I that the organisation is a threat to individuals and the freedoms that we all cherish so much. If I see evil, I call it as such, no matter whether it pretends to be a religion or not. Look at the web pages, read the newsgroup. Make up your own mind. -- Sister Clara - SP2.5 *********************************************************************** * * Little Sisters of the Perpetually Juicy * *********************************************************************** * Dear Sister Clara Being a Scientologist myself doesnít mean that I believe in Scn or L. Ron Hubbard, and I donít know of any others frankly who do believe something as if in a cult or a faith even. What I consider about the CoS is based on what information I have read, studied, examined, tested and evaluated for myself - not the claims of others, not the reports (purported false or otherwise), but what I have experienced to be true for myself. I notice how rare it is that anyone attempts to claim that Dianetics doesnít really work. The reason is, itís too easy to prove that it does. Just do it. If a person dared actually evaluate it for themselves, that is. But of course much as the media operates: ĎOh no, donít look, itís dangerous; donít dare look for your self; we have looked [apparently] and we know it is dangerous, believe us; take our word for it Ď So, people are coerced *out* of looking. The Scientologists I know have not taken anyoneís word for anything. They have evaluated the data for themselves and found it to be true. All this distasteful anti-CoS information spread around the Internet is deliberately intended to communicate to people that they should not look for themselves. Well, if you donít evaluate (that is, think) for yourself, you had better know very well the character of those you are allowing to think for you, those you are allowing to evaluate and align and represent the information for you. I think we have all probably been led astray at one time or another by people we have trusted. I donít do that any longer. I know what I know because itís what I myself have evaluated with my own experience and found to be true by my own test, and retest and retest over and over; and it still holds to be true for me. If you know something to be factual for yourself, if you know all the particulars and details, so you can be certain there are no distortions or alterations of fact or of relative importances concerning something - then I think you would not be swayed by contrary claims or opinions, or information aligned such as to make the greatest negative impact. My own personal experience with the news media, for instance, has been around 8 different occasions in my life where I had first hand knowledge of some event which the media reported on. In each and every case there were incorrect names, dates, places, accounts inconsistent with my first hand information, etc. That is my own personal experience with how reliable second-hand information is. I weigh this against what I myself have experienced to be true. I consider this to be rational, sane behavior. There is little going on on ARS that is rational or sane. It is fear, hatred, anger, and the intention of destroying something on the basis of second and third hand information, the distortion and alteration of facts (many which I know personally to be other than are being represented). According to Websterís Unabridged dictionary a bigot is: 1. a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc. Draw your own conclusions.

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