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From: Sushama123 <Sushama123@aol.com>
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:30:37 EDT
Subject: Mr. Frederick yo are heading to Hell

Mr. frederic, I have no respect for your that you are attacking a man who preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You better take this web site off before the wrath of God strike you and your family. I am ashamed of you bloody fool. Have you ever done any kind of sin in your life to judge others? You should stop doing it.


From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@skeptictank.org>
To: Sushama123 <Sushama123@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:52:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Mr. Frederick yo are heading to Hell

At 21:30 4/19/98 EDT, Sushama123 wrote:

> Mr. frederic,

Normally one would either preface a greeting with one's first name or, if one wishes to employ the title "Mister," do so with one's last name. Such examples of this would be "Fred," or "Mr. Rice."

I mention it in the hopes that you learn to compose a message with some degree of literacy so that in the future you might benefit from not exposing yourself as uneducated and illiterate.

> I have no respect for your that you are attacking a man who
> preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Curiously you "forgot" to mention who this "man" is and what this "gospel" is. You also seem to have forgotten to provide any specifics to back up your allegations. I suppose you did so because you realize that doing so would result in a lengthy series of embarrassing and quite painful debunkings -- not to mention unfortunate exposures to the truth.

> You better take this web site off before
> the wrath of God strike you and your family.

My, do you worship some evil gods, don't you?

Your pathetic threats are wasted upon your intellectual superiors, you know. I can see that you are in abject terror of your gods and I understand how your masters work hard to instill and maintain such fear. Yet lacking any belief in any of the gods and goddesses, such pathetic threats are, I can assure you, quite silly.

> I am ashamed of you bloody fool.

Of course you are. That's your indoctrination kicking in. Sound judgement, however, would take care of that unfortunate problem. The difficulty stems from the fact that your masters don't allow any judgement in their followers.

> Have you ever done any kind of sin in your life to judge others?

Since "sin" is a religious notion not evidenced in reality, I -- indeed all atheists and non-Christians who recognize the absurdity of the notion -- are incapable of "sin." "Sin" is a fictional disease sold to the gullible so that a fictional "cure" may also be sold to them. As I'm an atheist, I don't fall for such obvious scams.

> You should stop doing it.

Traditionally, the Christian finds himself having to do the job jimself since his gods don't seem able to. What are you going to do, dear Christian? Will it be a shotgun in the back of the neck this time? Or will it be an AK-47 at the school yard to show how your "god's wrath punishes the guilty?"

How will your pathetic threats be handled when you realize that your gods are not performing on schedule?


From: Jessica <evilsizor@mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu>, 2@osu.edu
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart

I am currently a college student and certainly don't consider myself to be uneducated, nor a cult follower. Your commentary on the letters sent to you about this "Swaggart scandal" is ridiculous. Have you checked your knowledge of the Christian faith lately? You seem to have only marginal knowledge of the faith, yet you insist on denouncing that faith with no foundation. None of us claim that Jimmy Swaggart can save us or any human for that matter. We don't worship humans nor do we assume Swaggart's words are the absolute authority. You have grossly overestimated this situation. Jimmy Swaggart is merely a man who is fulfilling God's call on his life. So what if he happens to be a televangelist? Why is that so important to you? Would you publicly insult the ministry of a church usher who's name you don't even know in such a situation? Besides, whether or not any of these accusations are true is none of your business nor is it any of mine. We all sin. We are all the same in the eyes of God. We can not live our lives in perpetual judgement of others. What would that accomplish anyway? What does your page accomplish? It communicates more effectively your own ignorance and arrogance rather than anyone's wrong-doing. I truly pray that you accept God's love into your life before it's too late.

Jessica F Evilsizor
The Ohio State University
(History/Pre-Law Major)


From: "waymon g. waller" <wwaller@tilc.com>
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 21:28:38 -0700
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart

Dear Mr. Rice,
The Bible says that Satan will go to and fro seeking whom he may devour. If Jimmy Swaggart is doing wrong then you should be praying for him instead of trying to bring him down. Another quote from God's Holy word says, Judge not that you be not judged. Before I close I would like to ask you a question. When your time comes and you stand before God, will he say, Well done thy good and faithful servent enter into the kingdom of heaven or will he say, Depart from me you worker of iniquity I never new you?


From: mawkettle@webtv.net (Jackie Moreau)
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:47:59 -0500
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart

Glory hallelujah! I agree with you 100%. How can people continue to let someone like Jimmy Swaggart lead them astray even after he has been revealed as a hypocrite. I can't and will not ever understand their reasoning.

Please continue to expose him for the person that he really is.


From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@skeptictank.org>
To: wwaller@tilc.com
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:07:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Jimmy Swaggart

At 21:28 5/3/98 -0700, waymon g. waller wrote:

ww> Dear Mr. Rice,

Please call me Fred.

ww> The Bible says that Satan will go to and fro seeking whom he may devour.

Yes, and the Christian mythologies also claim that bats are birds, that mustard seeds grow into trees, that there was a world-wide global flood, that dead people walk and donkeys and snakes talk, that the value of Pi is 3.0, and no end of utter nonsense.

And your point was what, exactly? It's well known that the mythologies were not intended to be believed. Most rational people would to make it a guide to living rather than fall down and worship the silly thing.

ww> If Jimmy Swaggart is doing wrong then you should be praying for him
ww> instead of trying to bring him down.

Thinking at people doesn't do anything. The only thing which could help the poor man would be a return to academia and the achievement of a good education.

As for "bringing him down," no one can bring a man down but that man himself. When Swaggart gets caught soliciting sex and engaging in sex with prostitutes, he's already done his bit. Nobody need do any more.

Now how could you come to the mistaken conclusion that other people are in any way capable of bringing others "down?" More to the point, how could you come to the conclusion that documenting the mans obvious frauds and lies is in some way "bringing" him down?

ww> Another quote from God's Holy word

That's strange. Do you have any evidence for these gods of yours? Until you can find some evidence for gods, it would be a mistake to start pretending they have words.

First provide evidence that there are gods and then you may start providing evidence that they left "words."

ww> says, Judge not that you be not judged.

That's in the Christian mythologies, silly, not the words of any gods.

In any event, let's not pretend that the fraud has been judged by anyone other than his own actions, shall we? I don't know about you but I find the fact that the man is a pedophile to be rather distressing, don't you?

ww> Before I close I would like to ask you a question.

Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. Understand that I expect to have answers to any questions I might ask as well.

ww> When your time comes and you stand before God, will he say, Well done
ww> thy good and faithful servent enter into the kingdom of heaven or
ww> will he say, Depart from me you worker of iniquity I never new you?

What a freakish question. Well, to begin with perhaps you don't understand what it means to be dead. The only "after" is a return to ambient temp. and the decomposition of the body. It's pretty silly to try to pretend that you get to live just because you mistakenly believed in deity constructs.

What you should be asking yourself is why you fear death and feel you need to try to threaten your intellectual superiors with such nonsense. I can assure you that I neither fear my own death nor do I consider such idiotic threats to be at all alarming.


From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@skeptictank.org>
To: Robert Curry <curry@gte.net>,Alex Crays <crays@northcoast.com>
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:26:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Resentment-filled rant

rc> (and now it's time for . . . another perspective)

ac> Mr. Know it all,

rc> Say, wasn't he a character on the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show?

<laughing> I can't help but think fondly of Master Cylinder on Felix The Cat. And Mr. Peabody and his boy Sherman. That naturally seques to George of the Jungle and "I'll save you Nell!" and all the other idiot shows in the same venue.

ac> Is there an issue of tolerance around the world??
ac> Is there a difference between right and wrong??

rc> More to the point, is there some way of expressing your intent just
rc> a little more clearly here? I for one have no idea what set this off,
rc> but I would gladly help answer your concerns if only I had a better
rc> grasp of what it is, specifically, that's bothering you.

I decided to address his questions from the most likely meaning he was attempting to express. There is in fact a great deal of intolerance in the world and, as I pointed out to the poor fellow, it seems to nearly be at the hands of the deity-oriented religious among us.

ac> How is it that the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ irritates
ac> you so much to the point that you have gone to the time and
ac> expense to try to "debunk" the spiritual leaders of
ac> our day.

I wonder where this guy found this "gospel of Jesus Christ" he's ranting about. The rest of the world doesn't seem to know anything about it.

rc> Good question, even though you did forget the question mark
rc> at the end (or perhaps ran out due to doubling up on them earlier
rc> in the message).

It was a rhetorical question, you see. At least this one isn't dropping a comma into his "sentences" between every two or three words. That's quite an improvement over some of the illiterate rants we receive.

rc> Fred must be one of those strange people who considers lying
rc> and the perpetuation of nonsense by preachers and other religious
rc> figures to be just as reprehensible as the same hypocritical actions
rc> and spread of misinformation would be if committed by anyone
rc> else.

Yeah, call it a weakness. I dislike pedophiles, frauds, cheats, and confidence men who bilk the ignorant and the gullible. Naturally I would be more than willing to remain silent were such frauds bilking adults. Sadly, however, what the likes of Swaggart does drags people's innocent children into his evil. How many children go hungry or won't acquire a quality education because Swaggart convinced their parents that he needed their money more?

Swaggart used to do a "faith healing" act. There's no possible way to find out how many children died because of such greed.

ac> I know that all people love challenges so here is my challenge
ac> to you. The next time you are alone, perhaps now, ask God to
ac> reveal himself to you.

rc> Done. The result is exactly the same as if every god is
rc> make believe. Do you have any other experiments to suggest?

And it's also exactly the same when thinking at pixies and fairies to "reveal themselves." Amazing how the non-existant and the make-believe look alike, huh?

ac> So lighten up a little and watch God move
ac> in your life he loves you very much.

rc> A common myth -- something like Santa Claus for adults.

Only without the body count.

ac> Serving People,

Such as prostitutes and their 7-year-old daughters.


From: SCHA <SCHA@aol.com>
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:09:16 EDT
Subject: Swaggart

I applaud your efforts to expose people like Jimmy Swaggart. While I do believe there may be a God , I don't necessarily believe that "It" (God) is vengeful and full of wrath. If that were the case , Jimmy Saggart and others like him would be struck blind, lose all forms of bodily control, and have no one there to help them get along. Though all you write may be true, the brainwashed will never see it for if you oppose Jimmy Swaggart - then you oppose God. If you oppose God, then you must be a child of the devil. Therefore, anything you say has no merit. Ignorance is truly bliss. More power to you!


From: Dave Vust <dvust@sk.sympatico.ca>
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:49:56 -0600

I'm not sure where you get your (mis)information. Leave it alone already, it's getting real old. Personally, I hope someone eventually sues you.


From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@skeptictank.org>
To: Skeeve <avalon@infohwy.com>
Subject: Re: How can you pick on that poor Jimmy Swaggart?
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:18:39 -0700

At 00:21 7/23/98 -0500, Skeeve wrote:

s> Because he's an asshole? As good a reason as any.

Can you believe the guy is _still_ on cable television? How amazing. Even after getting caught with his finger stuck up a prostitute outside of the "No Tell Hotel" his followers _still_ continue to give him money to provide "spiritual and moral enlightenment and guidance." Amazing!

I mean, is there a fucking shrink in the church?!

s> I read with much amusement your witty banter with the Swaggart
s> defenders (at least your half was witty).

<chuckle> Thanks. Yes, well, um... we _do_ get E-Mail from a number of... oh, I'm not sure how I could describe defenders of Jimmy Swaggart accurately. It's a phenomena which is difficult to describe.

s> You mention a web page detailing the perverted antics of Swaggart,
s> Bakker, et al. What is the URL of this page, if it's still up?

I've got a lot of work to do and I've asked someone else to research the available data on some of the more notables. Finding newspaper articles on freakish extremes advocated by Marian "Pat" Robertson and Oral Roberts, Peter Popoff, and good ole' Jimmy Bakker was _easy_. Putting it all together in web pages which don't contain anything that might be in the least bit untrue or inaccurate takes a lot of time. In many cases when I get on the telephone with a reporter who filed a story to verify that the article I have is accurate, the reporter has moved to a different agency or otherwise left. I've got literally hundreds of newspaper articles on the various slime balls going back to the early 1970's and I think it's best that I carefully pick through them before posting them.

s> I am fixing to read the material on the Restored Church of the Star
s> Goat, of which you are an ordained (?) reverend.

Yes, I'm ordained by the Universal Life Church. In fact today I was asked by a colleague of mine if I would provide to him samples of the weddings that I have outlined since he wants to get married again. Not wanting a traditional wedding (because his family's church doesn't approve of him marrying a prostitute from Holland) he's asked me what kind of wedding I would perform.

I assured him that the jokes about having to wear goat leggings is just that: a joke. I'll be working up a marriage outline and sending a copy to him in a couple of days to see if it sounds like it's acceptable. If he's agreed and his wife agrees, I will perform the ritual and file the papers with the State of California.

If you're interested in how that works, let me know. There is a web site that you can access which gives all kind of information on how to become an ordained minister. I caution, though, that it's a serious undertaking because something like performing a wedding or planting someone who's died is serious stuff. While the Restored Church of the Star Goat may be done with fun and amusement, I know when it's time to set aside nonsense and help out a couple who's own ministers have abandoned them.

Hell, if you or anyone else here at The Skeptic Tank are interested, let me know and I'll forward a copy of the wedding outline I'll plan. I've already got most of it typed-up and just need to clean it up and make it a bit longer.

s> I have a couple of quick questions. What is the Church position
s> on agnosticism? Are agnostics welcome in TRCOTSG? Keep up the Good Work!

I think that if we were to poll everyone who's joined the Restored Church, more than half would consider themselves agnostics. Few -- if any -- would consider themselves strong atheists; that is, people who state that there are no gods. If I recall the positions of everyone who's joined, they merely accept that there's simply no evidence for or against the existence of gods and that's okay with me and all the other members.

Also, there is a Deist who's a member. I think he might have actually changed his mind somewhat and is an agnostic but I can't be sure. (I'll have to ask Steve Q. about that.)

Also, my brother is a Wiccan who has the Goddess Lilith.

What I think makes a good Goatee is someone who understands the symbology that Star Goat represents. Someone who believes that their god exists while all others are some how evil frauds doesn't fit my ideal of what a Goatee should be. I don't want the intolerant and badly closed-minded joining up. I want to see people who are willing to admit that there might be gods; people who admit that evidence is lacking but would be nice; people who -- if they have god beliefs -- are not so stuffy as to proclaim they have the "right" gods and that everybody else is some how punishable for not believing.

For me -- and I believe other members -- Star Goat represents the symbol of tolerance and open-mindedness for non-destructive, healthy religious ideals. If we must have a god, why not have a god that doesn't reflect the petty bigotries and prejudiced of humanity? Since humanity seems destined to have gods for quite a few more years, why not create gods that are better than the ones we currently have? Why not learn from the evils that plague us and build tools -- like Star Goat -- which can't be turned into weapons to beat our brothers and sisters over the head with?

My feelings about Star Goat are difficult to pin down, exactly. I suppose that if I needed a god, I would create one rather like Star Goat: Mill around the garden looking for tasty flowers and tree bark to eat and leave humanity alone. When the religious dictate to humanity what the gods want and what the gods don't want, tyranny and inhuman atrocity are the norm. Star Goat loves us by leaving us the fuck alone. Science, truth, and reason will eventually make humanity the equal to the gods at which time perhaps we can join Star Goat, eating the flowers, and stripping the trees in Paradise of their tasty bark.


From: Matthew J Gilling <mjg83@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: frice@skeptictank.org
Subject: Stuff
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:15:49 +0000

Hi,

I just read your Jimmy Swaggart article. Personally I dont knowmuch about what that man has done, and ultimately it makes no difference to me. Jesus, is still a real person. Just because some guy is preaching one thing and doing another means only that he is wrong and totally off track, they are called hypocrits. They have been around a long time. But Jesus IS perfect. And He loves you! And He won't ever let you down. People always will. See the thing is, that just because Jimmy Swaggart has mucked up, doesn't give you an excuse to avoid God. I challenge you to ask God yourself ( no other people required) and give it a serious go. He will prove Himself to you.

Matthew Gilling
Feel free to post this. Infact I dare you! : )

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